Deep Diving on Air

[dumpsterDiver]

Absolutely.

That is the same thing that happened in Cozumel. They overcame the problem that was caused by narcosis (diver went too deep), but because they had cut their air supply margins to the minimum, they did not have enough air to do the ascent properly. Two of them went OOA at 200 feet, and they did a 3-person buddy breathe to the surface with no deco stops.

One of the key points of safe deep diving is to take enough gas with you to give you the time to recover from an unplanned event and make a safe ascent.

Take a step back, if everything went perfect and they planned a dive for everything to go perfect and they executed everything perfectly, the dives would have been pulled off. However, in both cases, it sounds like narcosis caused divers to make deadly mistakes (i.e., shooting down toward 400 feet like a maniac or "crawling around on the bottom at 200 in the dark" ). If these errors in behavoir were not made, the divers almost certainly would have "a cool story to tell".

Their dive planning was stupid and irresponsible, but I view it as narcosis as being the primary factor in the accidents. The root cause was the narcosis, having too little air to address "mistake" did not cause the accident.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I beg to differ. If they had planned the dive properly they would have had enough air to solve the incident and get everyone back up to the surface alive.
The root cause was ****ty dive planning and unfortunately the DM paid the ultimate price for it

what the heck are you talking about? The people need more air to successful plan and execute dives to 400 feet plus over the wall????

Have you ever been below 250 on air? Do you have experience in dealing with a major problem that requires extreme exertion at those depths and more? You comment is ridiculous. Divers going to 300 ft on air are weak, they are compromised by narcosis, a very dense breathing medium, a susceptibility to oxygen toxicity and CO2 poisoning...

In cozumel the lady wigged out (from narcosis) and another person tried their best to be a hero. Narcosis probably affected both those decisions.

 

[Tigerman]

Crawling around on the 200ft bottomn (where they planned to go in the first place) wouldnt have been but an inconvenience and an ever "cooler story to tell" if they had planned the dive properly and brought the air to work around a frankly not-so-unforseen issue like a narc..

 

[boulderjohn]

Take a step back, if everything went perfect and they planned a dive for everything to go perfect and they executed everything perfectly, the dives would have been pulled off. However, in both cases, it sounds like narcosis caused divers to make deadly mistakes (i.e., shooting down toward 400 feet like a maniac or "crawling around on the bottom at 200 in the dark" ). If these errors in behavoir were not made, the divers almost certainly would have "a cool story to tell".

Their dive planning was stupid and irresponsible, but I view it as narcosis as being the primary factor in the accidents. The root cause was the narcosis, having too little air to address "mistake" did not cause the accident.

Proper dive planning includes the assumption that something may go wrong. If it does, they will need the gas, equipment, training, and (as Bob correctly points out) the attitude to deal with it. In these cases, something very predictable did indeed go wrong, and they were not prepared to deal with it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Crawling around on the 200ft bottomn (where they planned to go in the first place) wouldnt have been but an inconvenience and an ever "cooler story to tell" if they had planned the dive properly and brought the air to work around a frankly not-so-unforseen issue like a narc..

Given the training and experience level of the divers involved, the only conceivable plan that could've been considered proper would've been "don't go there" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Tigerman]

Given there was 3 AOW students there, Im not gonna disagree even without having no further knowledge of the dm and instructors experience or training.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Given there was 3 AOW students there, Im not gonna disagree even without having no further knowledge of the dm and instructors experience or training.

DM candidate had about 130 total dives, and had completed NAUI training through Master Diver level ... no tech training. Friend was similarly experienced. I have no idea whether or not the instructor had any tech training, but marvel at his ability to think that AOW students with 11 and 14 total dives, respectively, had any business even contemplating a 200-foot night dive on single AL80's in cold water and bad vis ... especially since neither of them had done a night dive previously. AOW student #3 was only slightly more experienced than those two ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Scott L]

Who is winning this deep air thread? The practice of diving impaired until you are conditioned crowd? Or let's put a proper amount of He in the ole cylinders or just stay on the couch group?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Proper dive planning includes the assumption that something may go wrong. If it does, they will need the gas, equipment, training, and (as Bob correctly points out) the attitude to deal with it. In these cases, something very predictable did indeed go wrong, and they were not prepared to deal with it.

I said they had a plan, not a very good one, but a plan..(pray that nothing happens and we will be OK)....narcosis was the root cause of the problem.. Attitude, extra air, equipment and training have very limited utility if you are narced out of your brain and loose the ability to think or function.

 

[Tigerman]

Id say that having extra air would make ALL the difference when youre able to see a diver not ascend, pull him up and end up inflating his bc before you know youre going to drown because your tank is empty.
Thats a pretty damn clear testiment to me that more air would have been everything...