Deep Diving on Air

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Let's be objective with a real world example of the risks involved (non-contributing, glip & flippant, contemptuous "holier than thou" & self-righteous posts like Lamont & Bob's above aside):

If you're in warm tropical 27deg C waters, no current, good viz, on an external easy tour of a wreck (like in Truk Lagoon, where I'll be in two weeks:wink:), you can cognitively accommodate to deep air. You have trained muscle memory to handle most contingencies albeit you may be slower to process, problem solve and react . . .so you strategically mitigate your activities to avoid potential tactical overload in an emergency situation --i.g. don't penetrate the wreck; don't physically exert yourself to CO2 retention levels & starting the vicious dark narc cycle; don't do any extensive computations on-the-fly to your deco schedule; go no deeper than 60m or ppO2 1.47 etc. --keep it all nice, easy and simple. . .

That above being said, in my experience . . .here's what can start to "innocuously" happen while on Deep Air:
You can compensate for the narcosis with increased concentration on the task at hand, but unfortunately that may come with the detrimental loss of overall "situational awareness": for example, you can consciously concentrate hard in tying in a clean secondary tie with your penetration reel, but you then inadvertently tangle your SPG in the process, in addition to silting-out the passage behind you (actually happened to me inside the Nippo Maru). Plus, it takes more time to problem-solve and assess contingency scenarios when you're cognitively impaired; your margin for recoverable mistakes & errors of judgment becomes less and less; you become more susceptible to being overwhelmed by cascading adversity (i.g. tangled penetration line, followed by a primary light failure, with your buddies signaling that you're at thirds SPG Pressure-turn-around-to-egress). . .

Uhm. Yeah. That's kinda the point why its a really bad idea. Thanks for making the point for me.
(Full context of my quote above: the point is mine to be made and you're nothing but a trolling toady to it) --I'll choose to take the risk every year, and WILL come back every time to tell you about it Lamont. . .:cool2:
 
Since the advent of ROV's isn't any kind of deep diving, even on mix, irresponsible? There are better ways to do those dives these days...


You had better not let anyone from the WKPP hear you say that. :wink:



Less flippantly,

I think this is a good point, although it does illustrate the layers of complexities to such issues.

For example, it can be reasonably argued that some tasks are still still better performed by humans (vs machines), despite the additional risk exposure ... as well as the additional expenses.

For another example, it can also be reasonably argued that the proposed task's objective may entail unreasonably high risks, but it is also cheaper to send a human than to apply the appropriate machines.


Using the WKPP as a case study, for the purposes of scientifically mapping underground water flows, a couple of dozen holes dug down from the surface and some tools (ROV, tracer dies, etc) will nearly totally eliminate a claimed justification for risk exposure from cave divers doing long pushes. And given the expense of dozens of scooters, rebreathers, tanks of mixes, etc...getting the man out of the cave very well could be getting close to being cost-competitive too. But it isn't as "rewarding" to not be down there personally, set new world records, etc.


Sliding over to deep air diving, compared to the alternatives (anything from Mix to ROVs), a big part of its appeal is that it is dirt cheap, and since it has very few 'special resources' required (eg, Helium), it is available worldwide. Overall, it has a "low barrier to entry", which is what makes it tempting, despite its inherently higher risks.


-hh
 
Hmmmm ...

If you're in warm tropical 27deg C waters, no current, good viz, on an external easy tour of a wreck (like in Truk Lagoon, where I'll be in two weeks:wink:), you can cognitively accommodate to deep air.

Apparently even you don't believe that because ...

This will be my first Truk Trip on Sidemount only --which is why I'm allocating @ $2k for Trimix blending costs over three weeks. It would be kind of tough keeping track of individual tank pressures at 60m on Deep Air, let alone being inside some of the tight places I'm planning on going into. . .
... if you did you wouldn't be spending $2 grand on helium ...

I'll choose to take the risk every year. . .:cool2:

... apparently not ... but I'm glad about that, and wish you success in your dives ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Captain, glad you put that out there, hh post were hittin home except that, 200' was always the line that you crossed and many navy divers did 200' on OC that I have met, and some told me 300', when i ? them on that depth, they look at me and say I do remember correctly. In these incidents I was then sure that some navy divers break the rules, and there safety was an on board chamber.

Deep Air is safe as you want it to be, Visability was so good that as I got to 185' yesterday and narcosis was very minimal, gopro camera housing check was the purpose and how much light I need to use. when pointing to the surface and you see a light green probably helps also.

Kevin has the bent experience which is good to read about for those just entering the deep air dives.

Going Diving now.
 
Is it really fair to equate deep air diving (and as some would advocate, on single tanks) to cave diving and wreck diving? Deep air diving to many of us is already indicative of a dive that is being done in an inappropriate manner... Anyway, like most say, people are "free" to dive how they want but others are also free to express their opinions on seemingly stupid practices that are being advocated in the internet.

I don't think anyone would say that cave or wreck diving doesn't have a higher degree of risk than diving outside of an overhead environment. Who is the one to say that it's ok to dive a cave system, but not deep-air? You???

I believe that it's up to the individual to assess how much or how little risk they elect to accept. No one should be told by anyone what must be done and what's not allowable. Nor should anyone call a deep-air diver (or cave diver) stupid because they choose to accept a different degree of risk. Some people might not like it, but we in-fact do have certain freedoms.
 
1. There's a difference between recommendations and regulations. Providing guidance is acceptable. Prohibition isn't.

2. Acceptance of risk is a personal decision.

3. Ignorance of risk is a personal failure.

4. Exposure to risk based upon educated acceptance isn't stupid.

5. Exposure to risk based upon ignorance of the risk is stupid.

6. There's a lot of stupid people out there - those who care try and protect them.

7. When recommendations fall on deaf ears, a strong tone is used.

8. The most stupid people are the ones who deliberately remain ignorant of risks, in order to self-justify their activities.

9. Ignoring available training, education and advice on alternatives and risk is to remain 'deliberately ignorant'.

10. Training, education and advice is readily available to diminish risks in deep diving, especially with regards to breathing gasses.
 
Providing guidance is acceptable. Prohibition isn't...

...There's a lot of stupid people out there - those who care try and protect them. When recommendations fall on deaf ears, a strong tone is used.

I agree. So who do you think is deaf? :wink:
 
I don't think anyone would say that cave or wreck diving doesn't have a higher degree of risk than diving outside of an overhead environment.

First, that statement is far too general. Second, I would say that the tech 1 dives I do at home are far more difficult/challenging than the cave 1 dives I have done in Mexico and Florida. And when I do tech 1 dives at home, I do so having stacked as many of the cards in my favor as possible. For example, I use trimix on these dives. Doing the same tech 1 level dives, minus helium, would only make the most challenging dives I do more difficult.

And with regards to risk assessment, I think the insurance companies would disagree with you. Getting life insurance as a someone who dives caves is easily doable. Getting life insurance as someone who dives deeper than "recreational" limits, not so much.

Who is the one to say that it's ok to dive a cave system, but not deep-air? You???

You are comparing apples and elephants.
 
1. There's a difference between recommendations and regulations. Providing guidance is acceptable. Prohibition isn't.

2. Acceptance of risk is a personal decision.

3. Ignorance of risk is a personal failure.

4. Exposure to risk based upon educated acceptance isn't stupid.

5. Exposure to risk based upon ignorance of the risk is stupid.

6. There's a lot of stupid people out there - those who care try and protect them.

7. When recommendations fall on deaf ears, a strong tone is used.

8. The most stupid people are the ones who deliberately remain ignorant of risks, in order to self-justify their activities.

9. Ignoring available training, education and advice on alternatives and risk is to remain 'deliberately ignorant'.

10. Training, education and advice is readily available to diminish risks in deep diving, especially with regards to breathing gasses.

:clapping:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
You are comparing apples and elephants.

Both cave diving and deep-air have an increased element of risk. Who is to say that one is acceptable and the other isn't? People die doing both activities.
 

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