Deep Diving on Air

[Adobo]

Lamont;

One could say the same of Cave and Wreck diving; stupid people taking unnecessary risks. I don't however share this view and obviously disagree with your perspective.

Is it really fair to equate deep air diving (and as some would advocate, on single tanks) to cave diving and wreck diving? Deep air diving to many of us is already indicative of a dive that is being done in an inappropriate manner.

To me, it seems more fair to compare deeper diving to around 150-200ft (without expressing a specific gas choice) to cave diving and wreck diving. These three activities seem to have a great deal in common including:

• All three types of diving pose a greater risk than what most recreational divers are trained for based on garden variety training (open water, AOW, rescue, etc.).
• they all introduce the notion of an overhead which prevents the diver from having direct access to the surface. In the case of deeper diving, the overhead is virtual.
• As a result of the above, gas planning changes as a greater amount of reserves are necessary to ensure there is sufficient gas to negotiate the overhead even in the case of emergencies. The need for greater amounts of reserves might dictate a change in equipment as well - perhaps doubles and a BCD system suited for doubles.
• Another consequence of the overhead is the need for knowledge for dealing with failures. It's great to bring plenty of gas reserves but it could be all for naught if there is a catastrophic failure that causes all those reserves to disappear with the diver unable to react appropriately.
• all three require some specialty equipment for their respective environments. Examples include lights and reels for cave and wreck diving - and - proper gas mixes and SMB and/or a reel for deep dives.
• several reputable agencies has developed training programs to educate divers on what is required to execute these dives while at the same time mitigating the risks that are inherent in them.

I am sure they have plenty more in common than what I have listed.

Imagine a scenario where someone was cave or wreck diving on a regular basis without a reel, with insufficient lights, on a single tank, doing 1/3rds penetration.

If I am understanding Lamont correctly, I don't think he would argue with you that this kind of diving is stupid and senseless. Just as he is saying that executing a dive to 150 -200ft or so on air and perhaps without the other required equipment or training is stupid and senseless.

Anyway, like most say, people are "free" to dive how they want but others are also free to express their opinions on seemingly stupid practices that are being advocated in the internet.

 

[gsk3]

To me, the comparison between deep air and cave/wreck diving doesn't make seense: one is a mechanism, one is an objective.

If the objective is to go to X feature at Y feet of depth, or to go Z feet back in a cave, etc. then you have to decide how best to accomplish that objective. Air is one of those ways. So are poodle jackets and singles.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Have fun Kev ... try to stay alert and not bend the crap outta yourself this time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

gonna tell him to take lotsa pictures because he won't remember anything as well?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

gonna tell him to take lotsa pictures because he won't remember anything as well?

No ... I do hope, however, that anyone wanting to take his advice will read the thread he linked to. It's clear that Kevin's issues on that dive were initially the result of excessive narcosis ... and that the ensuing poor decisions led directly to his injury.

I do wish him well ... but given the content of that thread and Kevin's subsequent rationalizations for what went wrong, I don't think he should be telling anyone else how it can be done safely ... because I don't think he yet truly comprehends why he hurt himself ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kevrumbo]

Have fun Kev ... try to stay alert and not bend the crap outta yourself this time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I go every year to Truk since that Bends Incident 2008 around this time to "celebrate" that event with successful Deep Air and Trimix Penetration dives on the San Francisco Maru -- to share the lessons learned freely without shame or care of judgment from peers about that incident (see again http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/near-misses-lessons-learned/264517-type-i-bends-hit-chuuk.html) --and to let you know about it Bob everytime you & the "DIR Practitioner's Rogues Gang" harp on that incident annually because I can afford to. . .

gonna tell him to take lotsa pictures because he won't remember anything as well?

No . . .because I'm task loaded enough at 57m depth --I leave the camera & housing in the hotel room (and also which is why I return at least once to Truk every year since 2007 to "refresh" my memory). . .

Again the point is on deep air --you strategically mitigate your activities to avoid potential tactical overload in an emergency situation-- or abort the dive. Better yet, if you have a family, don't even do the dive. . .

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Ah me, Kevin ... I'd wear that "DIR Practitioners" mantle proudly if I'd earned it ... but I decided long ago to follow a different path.

Have fun ... stay safe ... I'll look forward to reading about your dives when you return ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kevrumbo]

Ah me, Kevin ... I'd wear that "DIR Practitioners" mantle proudly if I'd earned it ... but I decided long ago to follow a different path.

Have fun ... stay safe ... I'll look forward to reading about your dives when you return ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

If that keeps you sane & safe Bob, and within your limits without learning "the hard way" like I did --good for you!!! The same for anyone reading about my experiences earned "the hard way" --safe & good diving to all!!! (And start keeping your patronizing comments to yourselves now . . .eh Bob?)

This will be my first Truk Trip on Sidemount only --which is why I'm allocating @ $2k for Trimix blending costs over three weeks. It would be kind of tough keeping track of individual tank pressures at 60m on Deep Air, let alone being inside some of the tight places I'm planning on going into. . . (you will hear about these dives Bob -for better and hopefully not for worse).

 

[Centrals]

San Francisco Mar at 57m depth --I leave the camera & housing in the hotel room

Again the point is on deep air --you strategically mitigate your activities to avoid potential tactical overload in an emergency situation-- or abort the dive.

So much to see on this wreck.
I can still remember most of the dive even on AIR(single). The mini-tanks, huge beach mine, shells and bombs etc etc in various holds. 5 min BT was all we had but well worth it. The whole group was trained technical divers and none of us surfaced with less than 80 bars.
Dived the IJN Haguro last yr and it was different story. 58m to the deck and everyone was on 18/35 because of the slightly hostile environment ie open sea and all the deco etc etc. I don't think I can dive Haguro on AIR.
There are divers who would use trimix to dive those wrecks in Coron, wear dry suit at the peak of the summer in Philippines and ride a scooter around the reef. I have no problem with them BUT just don't tell me that they are doing it right!!!!!!

 

[lamont]

Let's be objective with a real world example of the risks involved (non-contributing, glip & flippant, contemptuous "holier than thou" & self-righteous posts like Lamont & Bob's above aside):

[...]

your margin for recoverable mistakes & errors of judgment becomes less and less; you become more susceptible to being overwhelmed by cascading adversity

Uhm. Yeah. That's kinda the point why its a really bad idea. Thanks for making the point for me.

 

[DaleC]

Since the advent of ROV's isn't any kind of deep diving, even on mix, irresponsible? There are better ways to do those dives these days...