Deep Air?

[DevonDiver]

@Diver0001

I agree with all that you wrote. We are seeing the fruits of an 'easy-ride' generation of divers becoming instructors - becoming tech divers - becoming tech instructors....training an 'easier-ride' of new generation divers... and so forth.

Agencies set low prerequisites and low standards... abdicating responsibility to instructors for applying risk and quality management. That works for so long as the instructors know what the risks are and the quality should be.

The problem is; many don't. They were signed off every step of the way based on minimal prerequisites and they didn't have to gain any substantial experience. No experience; no reality perspective of risk. Quality is lost as successive generations lose expertise. Deep, advanced and tech diving becomes just another quick, cheap and easy, box ticking, attendance exercise.

IMHO, this stems from a very flawed concept... that of the 'almighty' IT. Where there should be gatekeepers, we have agency cash-cows. Where we should have experts, we have weak generalists... and they shape the path for successive generations.

I know full trimix instructor trainers with double-digit lifetime technical dives. I know an awful lot of tech instructors with much less than that.. There's a vast deficit of experience and expertise... and this causes a top-down degradation in appropriate quality training.

A generation of 'professionals' who got their own credentials without breaking a sweat, then... not valuing something they were given for nothing....sold themselves out to work for peanuts... and then, on not having two coins to rub together....cheaply hand out certifications to each and all, like 2-cent toffees on Halloween.

A huge lowering of instructional quality. What was once 'average' is now viewed as 'elite' (?!?). The new 'average'... are those who'd have failed...or not even started, a decade ago.

 

[kensuf]

The last few posts right above this have gone away from the original direction of the thread, but it's resonating with me quite a bit right now because I recently quit my position with a university scuba program over several concerns about the way they are handling an ITC. I'm not going to air my dirty laundry, but damn this is such a timely topic.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

When I wrote my own course part of that actually involved minimum skills that I want to see before I take on a student for the advanced class.
With those I have trained for open water it's not a big deal. I am already laying the groundwork for subsequent training by insisting on buoyancy and trim, using checklists, introducing rescue skills, and spending extensive time on both dive and gas planning.
Not with the idea of even seeing them again for further training but to meet the standards of the agency I cert them through.
This actually leads back to the deep question since SEI technically sees an OW diver as being certed to the sport diving limit they observe which is 100 ft. Now that limit is not recommended right out of the OW class. 60 ft is the recommended limit UNTIL the diver gains some experience and works their way up to the 100 ft mark.

We believe however that they should have all the knowledge and tools to do 100 ft dives without further instruction. So we give them information on SAC rates and using RMV for gas matching and planning. It's all in the Graver manual. We cover emergency decompression tables. Not so they can plan decompression dives but when you talk about deep dives, narcosis, using air faster, etc. you can't do that without using the emergency deco procedures and actual gas management to show that exceeding your NDL is not a trivial matter. Extending your safety stop by a few minutes is BS. It's no longer a safety stop it's a mandatory decompression stop and you are no longer in Kansas Toto. Now you see why that al80 is a poor choice for the deep dive because you exceeded your NDL and now do not have enough gas to do your mandatory stop.

While the tables do go to 130 they have a somewhat conservative approach to it and see that as the maximum depth sport divers should be able to go to WITHOUT special training.

Beyond that the bottom time is seriously limited on air and taking narcosis into account they just want to be conservative.
That said there is recognition that divers want to get there faster. Part of that is the resorts and operations that promote deeper dives and want to see an Advanced card. So they followed the rest of the pack and created the AOW class while still the YMCA Scuba course.

When SEI evolved from that a lot of the materials came along. They were pretty thin. Mainly because there wasn't a lot in them that wasn't in the OW course. But there were still new things IMO that needed to be in there to create safe, skilled, educated, and informed divers. As well as things that needed to be addressed due to students coming from less comprehensive OW courses.

I crossed over to SDI/TDI to offer the Deep specialty to those who wanted to go beyond that 100 ft mark. I teach the SDI Deep class as if it were a primer for further tech training. The standards call for two dives. I do four as a minimum. Two shallower skills dives above 60 ft as prep and one to 120-125 one to 100+. If I see something that gives me pause on the shallower dives the deep ones may get postponed or even cancelled.

 

[Peter69_56]

what are you paying for helium?

8 cents in OZ per litre and can be as high as 25 cents in Pacific areas

 

[Tassi Devil Diver]

8 cents in OZ per litre and can be as high as 25 cents in Pacific areas

4 cents per litre mixing it yourself.

 

[Peter69_56]

nope if I bought it it would be $1350 per 10,000 litres

 

[Tassi Devil Diver]

nope if I bought it it would be $1350 per 10,000 litres

Hmmmmm I would be changing gas supplier, down here in little old Hobart I get a G of standard grade He from Supagas for $516.

 

[Peter69_56]

Well I tried 2, CIG and another and both had similar pricing. Their reasoning was they hardly sell any so not a gas they are really interested in. I will see if I can find Super gas around here somewhere. Thanks

 

[100days-a-year]

I would need over 200 cuft a day at work to maintain <1.4 P02 and <100' END x 5-7 day trips x 2-4 guys diving per trip.=At best case 2000cuft and worst case 5600 cuft per trip x 20 trips per year average.I'll be happy to dive all the He anyone cares to bring out to me.

1 Cuft=28.3 liters FWIW

 

[Jared0425]

I thought I was one of the last deep air divers. I have been diving deep air for 6 years while trying to keep up with the mixed gas guys. I have about 30 dives below 150' and everything was alright until I encountered a problem at depth that quickly snowballed and damn near drowned until I got shallower and my head got clear to fix the problem. I always practiced drills, looked over and maintained equipment, and read many books along with older instructors. So I thought I could handle any problem at depth, but narcosis proved me wrong. So now I am finally taking trimix to help alleviate narcosis and get proper training.

I don't know about you guys in the Pacific, but here in the Great Lakes region a 18/45 mix costs $135 for db hp 100s and runs 150-175 for db LP 95-105s