deep air

[MXGratefulDiver]

b.With training or experience people can adapt, to one degree or another, to most anything. That's one of mans greatest traits.

Perhaps it's possible, but ... having been below 150 on air once, it's not an experience I care to repeat. Not for any reason ... training or otherwise. Therefore I don't see myself adapting.

It may be fine for you, or any number of other people. It's not fine for me. I don't like it ... and since I dive for recreation I see no reason to do something down there that I don't like.

At 150 I was barely able to function. Then again, even on land I'm a cheap drunk ... some people are just like that ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

It's not fine for me. I don't like it ... and since I dive for recreation I see no reason to do something down there that I don't like.

Thank you, Bob. You expressed my feelings very precisely.

 

[gcbryan]

No where do I see anyone arguing that for those who don't like it that they should do it.

I do see where those who don't like it are expressing their views that other's are being barnyard stupid for doing it.

I see the whole deep air thing like construction workers being able to walk on steel beams 50 stories high. We'll assume that the beams are as wide as a sidewalk.

Initially it's hard to do due to fear and the newness of the situation. Everyone can walk on a sidewalk without tipping over on the ground but 50 stories in the air it's initially difficult to do.

With a little experience (baring wind gusts) the fear goes away and it's no problem walking on the beams. It's still dangerous since falling 50 stories is still just as dangerous.

Someone could rightly determine that I don't like it and it's not for me. Someone else could choose to get the initial experience to allow them to do it while still having a healthy respect for the consequences of falling 50 stories.

In this case, there are no sides as there is no right and wrong. In diving there always seems to have to be two sides for some reason.

 

[EGad]

I don't really see what the argument is about. There is air, and there is mix. No one is making you breathe a gas that you don't want to. There are pros and cons to both. Deep diving requires great skill regardless of your breathing gas. If you feel safe diving air to 200' that's fine. If you feel you should be diving with He at 200' that's fine too. Either way diving mix or air to beyond rec depths takes training and ability. No one is forcing anyone to dive a gas they don't want to. There are ways to dive both safely. Mandating deep air before trimix probably isn't going to happen, because it isn't really necessary. Either way, your mix is not really your top priority. The 8+ ATM above you will hurt you regardless of what you breathe.

But then again, I'm a snorkeler who likes to read scientific papers and has spent a lot more time hypobaric than hyperbaric.

By the way 40,000' on air in a chamber is way fun.

I just don't see the reason to argue. People will dive the mix they want no matter what. Is a really good deep air vs. trimix going to keep people from bouncing to 200'? I doubt it. Personally, I think if you want to bounce dive to 300' on an AL80 of air, I'm not going to be able to stop you. If you want to do it on a methane/argon mix, I'm not going to be able to stop you, but I'll try to dissuade you. Failing that, you'll be warm, for a little while.

Being prepared for your dive with proper training and the right support is a good idea. Diving outside of your training, is seldom a winning proposition.

All that being said, please continue to quibble, I enjoy the nitpicking and I get to learn. Double bonus for me.

Dive the mix you want, or have, but please; stay safe.

Eric

 

[nadwidny]

As long as there are divers, there will be deep air diving.

As long as there is Scubaboard, there will be a forum for those that think that deep air is a good thing.

 

[SurDo2]

As long as there is Scubaboard, there will be a forum for those that think that deep air is a good thing.

As opposed to other "technical" orientated forums that don't even debate the issue? And why in your opinion is it not?

 

[Thalassamania]

Bunch of people who've never, or have rarely, done it pontificating the choir about how bad it is and slapping each other on the back at their shared perspicacity.

 

[DCBC]

Why is this a false statement? Because DCBC has confused "the legal limit" with "legally impaired" where "the legal limit" is when the law PRESUMES someone with a certain blood alcohol level to be impaired. There are many ways other than blood alcohol tests (of whatever kind) to "prove impairment by alcohol" -- trust me, as a former prosecutor (not to mention defense attorney) I used them.

To address your point. You could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I was "legally impaired" to drive a motor vehicle with no other evidence other than I blew 0.04. That's not enough (in Canada at least) to prove impairment in-itself. If you brought me to court simply because of 0.04, you would be disbarred and would possibly face criminal charges.

I can appreciate that if I was driving across the lines, staggering when out of the car, etc. but you presume too much to correct my initial statement which was: "My point is you can have a drink and can not be legally impaired." This is not a false statement as you have claimed.

Because there appears to be a big disconnect between DCBC (and others, including Thal) who believe "deep air" doesn't impair PROVIDED THE DIVER IS PROPERLY TRAINED

Peter, this statement is misleading and incorrect. Training and experience mitigates the amount of impairment that results. In actual testing done at DCIEM, when compared to a group of 3rd year medical students, the accuracy of my problem solving skills was over 80% better at 150'. I wish I could believe that I had a keener mind than the whole medical class, but that wouldn't be correct. The results of supposedly equal impairment were obvious. My accuracy did however drop almost 15% from similar testing undertaken at the surface. I'm sure there have been days that my performance has not been my best on the surface in any regard. It certainly proves that it would be acceptable for me to make any dive to 150' that I was capable of making without appreciable impairment.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bunch of people who've never, or have rarely, done it pontificating the choir about how bad it is and slapping each other on the back at their shared perspicacity.

.... but for a bunch of people who've never, or have rarely, done it ... it IS bad.

That's rather the point ... don't you think?

There are less than a dozen people on all of ScubaBoard who have the experience, skills and CONFIDENCE to do such dives in anything remotely like relative safety.

For the rest of us ... making prudent decisions about our limitations is what will keep us from becoming topics of discussion in the Incidents and Accidents forum.

I see that as a good thing ... deep air isn't something you need to do in order to prove that you are an elite diver. For most of us, it's a foolish decision ... and underwater, foolish decisions increase your risk of becoming a statistic ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DCBC]

.... but for a bunch of people who've never, or have rarely, done it ... it IS bad.

So is SCUBA , if you haven't received training first.
So is diving Trimix, if you haven't received training first.
So is Cave Diving, if you haven't received training first.
And yes, so is diving Deep Air, if you haven't received training first.