Dangerous psychology- Diving beyond one's training

[boulderjohn]

I think a lot of the problem comes from the fact that many people do nothing but basic OW diving and see nothing but basic OW divers around them. They say, hey, I can do all that. They are among the best they see in the diving they do, so they assume they are among the best there is in diving.

Here is an analogy. It is not intended to represent anyone in this thread.

Not long after the Fischer/Spassky chess duel, I was given my first high school coaching job. I coached the chess team. It was more of a club really, but we had interscholastic matches, so it was a team. One day during our after school practice sessions, there was a knock on the door, and a student asked if he could join the team. The president of the club welcomed him warmly, and offered him a game. The boy had a cheerleader with him, an exuberant fan who declared vigorously that this new guy was the best there is, and he was going to beat the club president handily.

I had to watch to see this phenom play. He was given the white pieces, and he promptly pushed his rook pawn forward two spaces. The club president looked up at me briefly with a half smile. For those who don't know, pushing the rook pawn forward two spaces may be the worst possible opening move in chess. It is a sure sign of a pure beginner. Well, the game went as might be predicted, leaving the new player and his cheerleader thunderstruck. He had never experienced anything like it. He had grown comfortable playing the simple games against similar players, and he had no idea what it was like to be at another level, in this case several levels above his experience.

I don't mean to imply that we are talking anything that extreme here. I just think that some people don't realize that there is more to advanced technical diving than they realize. What they further don't realize is how much their words are sometimes betraying this.

 

[tstormdiver]

If you knew anything about rebreathers and buoyancy, you would realize the idiocy of that statement.

Getting ready to learn it myself, in just a few weeks.

 

[NAM001]

i hate to say it , they dont know wht they dont know

why would these people still doing this such risky things??

 

[redacted]

If you knew anything about rebreathers and buoyancy, you would realize the idiocy of that statement.

Idiocy??? Do you mean as in carrying your own redundant air source but not knowing how to use it???

But, you are right. I only know enough about rebreathers to realize I don't need the associated safety risks that come with them for the diving I want to do. I suspect many of the things I don't know are just things I don't need to know.

I do know where my redundant air sources are and how to use them

---------- Post added November 28th, 2012 at 04:47 PM ----------

why would these people still doing this such risky things??

Maybe they were not trained very well.

 

[p1p]

At least I admitted what I did was silly and stupid but thats part of learning, as opposed your obvious perfection.

---------- Post added November 28th, 2012 at 02:53 PM ----------

Getting ready to learn it myself, in just a few weeks.

Have fun, its a whole new way to dive

 

[miked]

I thought that the "Basic Scuba" discussion forum was supposed to be a kinder, flame free zone??? C'mon guys.

 

[p1p]

thus my lack of perfection...

 

[tstormdiver]

Have fun, its a whole new way to dive

That's what I've been warned about.

---------- Post added November 28th, 2012 at 08:36 PM ----------

I thought that the "Basic Scuba" discussion forum was supposed to be a kinder, flame free zone??? C'mon guys.

Well, I placed it here so that maybe newer divers could get a little different perspectives,... for better or worse. Sometimes easy to get lost in the flow of things, I suppose. I agree,, the rules of the forum should be followed.

 

[fjpatrum]

I'm sorry, but your mistaken. Everyone with the interest to learn has to start somewhere. From your description, you're off to a good start. I encourage you to find an experienced mentor (not necessarily a 'certified' instructor) and dive.

The most important things that you'll learn about diving in the years to come, will not come out of a book, but by doing. After you establish a firm foundation, the greatest majority of your future diving knowledge will come through others and personal diving experience.

The only source of knowledge is experience. - Albert Einstein

I agree that more education comes from practice than from books. It's why I subscribe to the "dive more, take less classes (initially)" attitude. I believe there is absolutely a time and place for formal education, as well as informal education with mentors. I tend to prefer latter and supplement it with a healthy dose of reading anything and everything I can on a particular subject. But I also taught myself algebra at 9 years old by reading a book then proceeded to tutor my 10th grade brother who up to that point was failing the class. I may be a little unusual my regard for self-study and it's applicability to most subjects.

The art of any field of study is never learned from books... no matter how many books you read. That has to be gained by experimenting on your own. But the basis of any education, be it algebra, diving, or other can be learned from a book (and forums like this one, these days) well enough to get you started on a reasonable path of safe execution of that field of study. Especially now, when things like the 5 rules for cave diving have already been developed and are in the public domain.

I think Bob and I may be saying the same thing in different ways, though. A book education will never teach you risk assessment. It will just give you the requisite information (I believe) to do a valid risk assessment. Bob seems to disagree that I could find enough information to do a valid risk assessment, but I contend that's because Bob, not knowing me, doesn't have enough information about my risk assessment skills. I trust mine well enough to believe that I could do a dive safely within my risk tolerance, or decide not to do a dive before seeking formal education, strictly based upon information I can find without ever having done that dive.

That said, I'll never be the person who thinks they can do it all with just a book education. As I said, I'm slightly more risk averse than that.

This is a great thread, though slightly frustrating to wade through at times. Thank you all.

 

[Dan G]

why would these people still doing this such risky things??

That is the whole point of this thread.

To address the psychological aspect of divers taking risks. There is an aspect to the risks of diving, particularly for minimally experienced open water divers such as myself, that are all theory and not visible. For example, you cannot see or feel DCS until it is too late. You just have to know that it will happen if you break the rules. This non-visible risk can be easily ignored by someone who can talk themselves into ignoring it. I am not interested in ignoring those risks, I just occurs to me that this is why some divers exceed their knowledge/ training and seem so willing to take big risks.

I have seen this same psychology in back country skiing. People go with their gut about avalanche danger, rather than using metrics to determine the risk that day. They just 'feel good' that day and decide to go for it.