Couple questions on a pony bottle for bail out

[mrdre]

....I'm not familiar with the GUE fatality you mention, but I'm interested in it. Link?

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...n-diego-man-who-scuba-diving-died-sunday.html

He had GUE fundies complete.

 

[Greg_Vic_Diver]

Technically, GUE has removed all references to DIR.

No longer are they teaching DIR Fundamentals but GUE Fundamentals. I do not consider myself a DIR diver but a "GUE Diver"

 

[PfcAJ]

I remember hearing about this now that I see it. Thx.

I also remember reading something about the diver exceeding his training, but I'm not sure.

---------- Post added July 30th, 2014 at 03:06 PM ----------

Technically, GUE has removed all references to DIR.

No longer are they teaching DIR Fundamentals but GUE Fundamentals. I do not consider myself a DIR diver but a "GUE Diver"

Call it what you will.

 

[lowviz]

... Call it what you will.

Thx.

I've always been NQR. Not Quite Right...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I don't see much DIR in that video.

You guys give me the giggles. DIR works for wrecks, caves, OW, cold water, warm water, video, photography, dpvs, deep diving, shallow diving, but spearing? NO WAY, impossibru!

I just asked for some video of it. I asked for some examples of well known DIR divers that are very accomplished spearfisherman (that use DIR when hunting)?

The answer is that spearing is so simple that you can just do it... yet DIR stuff is just so freaking precise and perfect and has evolved into such a perfect system...that other (non-DIR) people are cautioned against emulating ANY of the DIR techniques.. It is apparently a complete system that must be implemented in its entirety or the value of it is completely lost and partial implementation or copying of it can actually be dangerous...

What happens when a DIR spearfisherman gets dragged from 100 feet to 50 feet in 12 seconds by a huge amberjack... how does the mental deco modeling work? How about when he is diving helium in 140 feet and gets dragged up 70 feet? Is that as safe as diving air for those depths and huge variations in ascent rates? Do DIR spearfisherman NEVER use dive computers? Does DIR allow multiple members of the team to shoot fish simultaneously, or must they take turns? If they must take turns, then it must limit their productivity, but how is this the "best" and most effective method? How does DIR recommend this coordination, do they use slates.. certainly they never scream and talk into their regulators to communicate right?

I have always wondered about this DIR spearing, but now that I know that it is apparently very common, I want to learn about it.

 

[PfcAJ]

If you get dragged from 100ft you 50ft you do the same thing we do when going over dunes in a cave. Its not a huge deal, man. Even your rocket ascent from 140 to 70 wouldn't rustle my jimmies too much, personally. Helium is much less soluble than nitrogen and if you keep the BT short your gas burden is low.

Once again, a lot of the noise you're hearing about it being "dangerous" to emulate any of the DIR techniques is from recent fundies grads that don't really know their ass from their elbow. You cant argue that min gas is "dangerous" or that a gauge on your arm is "dangerous" or that being neutral and in trim is "dangerous". That's preposterous.

Dan V spears (or speared) regularly, maybe you can get him to chime in about how they do it. You've also had John come in and say that he does it regularly in a DIR team.

While I'm sure "taking turns" would work, I think its probably unnecessary if you've got two guys who aren't dumdums diving together.

What you think about DIR and reality are two very different things.

 

[Greg_Vic_Diver]

I think there's too much focus on specifics on details...and even those might be bent if conditions/situations necessitate - but it would need to be a calculated team decision. GUE divers are taught to be "thinking divers" and use the concepts and mentality to apply team diving to new situations.

Sent from my XT925 using Tapatalk

 

[lowviz]

If you get dragged from 100ft you 50ft you do the same thing we do when going over dunes in a cave. Its not a huge deal, man. ...

Something like 'erasing' undiveable restrictions in a cave complex?

We all plan, test, and take calculated risks or none of us would be underwater in the first place.

 

[grf88]

It seems that every time the subject of pony bottles comes up somebody or other from a certain agency slams their use. I sometimes wonder if JJ was frightened by a pony in his childhood. There have been many threads on this and other boards. Here is one that I responded to in the past copying from one I had written before. I will not bother to write another but post this link instead:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/tanks-valves-bands/174429-pony-bottles-14.html#post2603184

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If you get dragged from 100ft you 50ft you do the same thing we do when going over dunes in a cave. Its not a huge deal, man. Even your rocket ascent from 140 to 70 wouldn't rustle my jimmies too much, personally. Helium is much less soluble than nitrogen and if you keep the BT short your gas burden is low.

Once again, a lot of the noise you're hearing about it being "dangerous" to emulate any of the DIR techniques is from recent fundies grads that don't really know their ass from their elbow. You cant argue that min gas is "dangerous" or that a gauge on your arm is "dangerous" or that being neutral and in trim is "dangerous". That's preposterous.

Dan V spears (or speared) regularly, maybe you can get him to chime in about how they do it. You've also had John come in and say that he does it regularly in a DIR team.

While I'm sure "taking turns" would work, I think its probably unnecessary if you've got two guys who aren't dumdums diving together.

What you think about DIR and reality are two very different things.

I'm not going to push this too much further, because I'm not seeing much on the other end.. but.. in order to bring this back into the context of the thread,,, If they don't "take turns" then how do two DIR buddies each shoot 40 or 50 lb AJ's at the same time, get drug all over the place and still provide each other the redundancy that is so essential? I can answer that... they CAN'T!!!!!

If they both hunt, then they MUST take turns or the redundant source just is not going to reliably be there... Now on the other hand if these two (DIR) divers, each had a pony bottle, they COULD actively hunt simultaneously AND not sacrifice their redundancy. You do see where i am going with this, right?

So I am having a hard time seeing how a DIR team is not going to sacrifice productivity because they both can't be fully engaged dealing with their own fish. Does that sound like a "better system" one watcher, one shooter???

What if one guy looses a fish in strong current, his shaft gets stuck in the bottom, the wounded fish takes off down current.... Now the second (DIR) diver can ditch his buddy, take off down current, shoot and kill the wounded fish,, or he can just sit there and hold onto the reef staying a few feet from his buddy as he claws his way up current to free his stuck shaft...This will provide redundancy in breathing gas but will result in the loss of the fish... is this a clearly superior system??? I think it is easy to see why some people would want to have their own redundancy... (and not with double tanks that make a ton of drag in the water)..