Cost of tech?

[waterpirate]

A recent thread got me thinking about this, and a thread on another forum alluded to the many baby steps comming up the ladder was a money grab. Some of the prices quoted for tech training were a lot less than I have paid, and some of them were in excess of the cost of a used honda.

In the thread "is tech worth it" I identified what I thought were three reasons to go tech. If you prescribe to mine or any template for progression you have to ask yourself, what is the training worth? and From whom do I get it?

When approaching the tech limit it is important that you train with an instructor who " has done the dives you want to do" and "is doing dives bigger than that". This is where the training deviates from rec training drastically.

If you are interested in caves than you should seek out a cave oriented instructor from the git go to start you on your path. If you are interested in deep wrecks, than form following function that is who you should sek out.

If you think that side mount is for you, training with a back mount instructor will do litle for you.

Now we come to price of the training. I believe it is "location location". You should train in the enviroment in which you plan to dive. Traveling to a destination that is not your primary dive diet for cut rate training is also a non starter.

In selecting a tech instructor the the topic of "what if I can not meet standards?" should be addressed. If you travel and do not letter, do you travel and pay again?

When I started my tech journey I looked everywhere and found the instructor that met the above criteria 40 miles from my home. The biggest selling point for me was availability, and diving in my home enviroment.

In the end the training I got IMHO was priceless, your mileage may varry, but I hope you get the same end result.
Eric

 

[Kevrumbo]

Originally Posted by Taiwanate
Hello,

As I begin my path into tec diving I was wondering, what is more important in training, agency or instructor? I know many agencies have very different reputations and training requirements/paths. I have looked at many options and while I like certain agencies, I also prefer certain instructors that incidentally do their training under a different agency. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

taiwanate

The strategy is to find the instructor employing the best practices for the kind of diving environment and geographic/oceanographic region that you are interested in [if excessive cost is the primary consideration, then tech diving isn't for you]. For example, if you're interested in Pacific WWII shipwreck diving, you would seek an instructor in residence at a locale where there are a lot of those kinds of wrecks to train on (i.e. SE Asia/Oceania Region like the Philippines, Chuuk, Palau etc.)

If you don't know what kind of technical diving you're interested in yet, then GUE Fundies/UTD Essentials is a good baseline to start with, and a reference standard against all the subsequent future courses that you will consider enrolling in, whether they are in the GUE/UTD Family or not. . .

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/te...important-tec-training-agency-instructor.html​

 

[tstormdiver]

what is the training worth?

What is your life worth?

and From whom do I get it?

Find the best you can. Interview & get to know any prospective instructors.

Now we come to price of the training. I believe it is "location location". You should train in the enviroment in which you plan to dive. Traveling to a destination that is not your primary dive diet for cut rate training is also a non starter.

Couldn't agree more,... but also be open to learning to dive in different environments to become a better, more rounded diver.

In selecting a tech instructor the the topic of "what if I can not meet standards?" should be addressed. If you travel and do not letter, do you travel and pay again?

Certainly. An important question that should be asked during the instructor interview. The student should be interviewing the instructor & the instructor should at the same time be interviewing the student. All honest details should be brought forth by both parties, so that each knows what they are dealing with.

When I started my tech journey I looked everywhere and found the instructor that met the above criteria 40 miles from my home. The biggest selling point for me was availability, and diving in my home enviroment.
In the end the training I got IMHO was priceless, your mileage may varry, but I hope you get the same end result.
Eric

Like you, I was able to find an excellent (IMO) tech instructor close to home. He is demanding & picky (as must be), but fair. If you need additonal work & are willing to listen & do what it takes to get there, he will get you there. It took me 2 yrs & 5 attempts to make it through full cave. I took the lessons from failed attempts home & practiced them to perfection, then went back & attempted again. He also takes us to new environments that he is familiar with to give us new perspectives on things.

It amazes me to no end, those that always look for the cheapest (instructor, equipment,.....)regardless of the endeavor. You do not neccesarily have to go with the most expensive, but I would certainly say it would foolish not to go with the best.

 

[TSandM]

I am so totally of two minds about this . . . Some of the best training I've gotten was the most expensive, and some of the best training I've gotten was pretty cheap.

As anyone who knows what I have paid for riding clinics knows, I am not averse to paying for quality instruction. But at some point, you have to start asking diminishing return questions. A Rolex is probably a better watch than a Citizen, but does it merit the difference between $200 and $10,000?

I took two introductory cave classes, and one was clearly worth more than the other. In that case, I felt I had definitely gotten more, although whether I had gotten three times the value was iffy. I took two advanced cave classes, and both were good classes. One was $800, and the other, by the time I had paid for everything, was probably more like $3K. Did I get 4 times the value out of the latter class? Would I have been a significantly more skilled, or safer diver, had I passed it? THREE TIMES as safe?

Tech prices are all over the map. There are slipshod instructors, undemanding instructors, and poor teachers out there -- and I think they exist at every price point. There are also diligent, careful, thorough and personable instructors out there at every price point.

Look for quality. Don't buy the wine because it's expensive, but don't buy it because it's cheap, either.

 

[Centrals]

Look for quality. Don't buy the wine because it's expensive, but don't buy it because it's cheap, either.

Unless you crack open the bottles and taste them otherwise you will never know which is better.

 

[waterpirate]

All good thoughts. The recent trafic on the boards as spring aproaches, prompted me to bring this topic bach to light. For people who are geographicaly challenged it can be tuff. The need to pack a lot into a short period of time, and the tendancy for the instructor to pass them based on money invested not skill.

I recently completed a journey through the maze that took over a year, prolly made at least 50 dives that culminated in my getting my normoxic card. I chose an instructor who aproached the whole thing as more of an aprenticeship, than a class to take with a couple of skill dives thrown in. Over the course of those dives I got: critiqued, scolded, yelled at, and encouraged. I enjoyed it and the cost that was paid was high by some standards, but priceless in terms of results.
Eric

 

[mathauck0814]

Cost is not the best indicator. I've had three tech instructors that varied in their own experiences and rates - there was no correlation between price and experience; only what they've found their particular market would bare.

I might take a separate approach from what was first described here. I did my "intro to tech" course in the Keys, which is not even close to the conditions where I do most of my diving. I went that route because an instructor was recommended to me by a friend and because the diving there has always treated me well. I think it was helpful to be learning new skills in such an unencumbered environment. At this point in my development I was truly being introduced to things I hadn't previously entertained. When I returned to the waters of New England and California and had my drysuit and cold, low viz conditions to manage, I was able to practice selectively and work on those skills in a more native setting.

For continuing technical training, I've decided that pursuing those ambitions closer to home makes more sense - why? Because the dives I'm ramping to do are here in California. If my target dives were in Chuuk, I'd look for an instructor that would travel there. Note that my instructor does not live anywhere near me, so this means I am now on the hook not only for his time, but also for his travel expenses (or both of ours, if I were to require training in a faraway, exotic place).

Location, to me, matters when you're talking about goals that are location specific. Learning valve shutdowns, buoyancy and trim, S-drills etc isn't a location specific chore. Diving the destroyers in 240fsw outside of San Diego harbor on the other hand, can't be done anywhere else. It's all about the goal.

Back to the original the topic of cost, the training isn't the part that I think folks should consider. It's the rest of it. The shift to technical diving is a considerable decision. If you attend training and then don't tech dive, you've thrown your money away. Skills need to be practiced and honed and drilled to become ingrained. The decision to conduct yourself in that manner is expensive. Acquiring and maintaining equipment, Purchasing (or purchasing the equipment to perform your own) helium blends and highly enriched nitrox fills, Participating in charters with limited loads and long runs with high fuel surcharges all add up to something that I continue to reference as more of a lifestyle decision than a hobby.

If you find that you've got the passion for this sort of thing, it's immensely rewarding. Having a good relationship with a mentor that you trust, who can help you to accomplish your goals is an important part. The cost for his time, whatever that may be, is mere drops in the bucket of the investment you're making in the activity.

 

[gsk3]

All reasonable thoughts so far. One thing I'll add is that traveling to a place with exactly the dives you want to be doing for training can backfire. The less time pressure you have during training, the better. To me, that argues strongly for training where you live. You can always hire an instructor for a "workshop" day or two when you get to your dream destination.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

I have travelled by air with bags of equipment for every tech course I have done. totally worth it. At the planning phase I will ask the instructor to extend the course, so I book him for 6 days for a course he normally runs over 4. If I meet his standards on day 4 great, I get some fun dives with a fantastic buddy for the rest of the time. If I need more time, then we are ok on that too. this is cheaper than a second air ticket a few weeks later to finish the course. by booking extra time I've never needed to come back a second time. Then again, I've also been realistic about the courses I sign up for versus my skill set.

Advantage to this is training with instructor trainers and instructors with their names on the bottom of cave maps. Down side . . . lots of $.

I would also say the earlier courses are the most important. You can forget wreck /cave / deco training if you can't hold buoyancy and trim.

 

[cerich]

tech training is the cheapest part of being a tech diver, even with HOG gear the equipment runs some coin, even at my cost (let alone retail) on gear I go into the water with more money being carried than my first three cars cost (combined)

On area that I try and push is for people seeking tech training is they find a team of like ambitioned people to take the class with them, as a instructor I am much more likely to extend a better price when dealing with 3-4 students that I will be spend 2-3 three day weekends with than one. Beyond that saving you also have a ready made cadre of team mates for post training and save on stuff like hotels and auto gas on the class.

If you don't meet the standard I normally will push back the final weekend so you/team can get some practice in before we continue, if we have to schedule an additional period of instruction i will try and fit you in with other activities to save you money and us time, if not possible yes I expect to be paid for the extra time.