Seeking opinions on NAUI tech training

[BoltSnap]

Naui in no way has nearly the quality of course or instructor oversight as gue.

How is that specifically?

 

[rddvet]

How is that specifically?

Very basically, NAUI does not have the same standards as the GUE curriculum. As Ken has stated and I have also witnessed, oversight of instructors is not a thing. Just like in TDI, SSI, PADI, and other major agencies there just isn't great oversight and it can be a crapshoot instructor to instructor. I pick my classes based on instructor not agency. But if I had to blindly recommend someone take a class not knowing the instructor, GUE would be a much easier choice because there is definitive oversight of instructors (that is not taking into consideration anything like gear configuration).
One of the most famous instructors in florida has put out horrific students for many years cause unfortuntately he's been old and out of touch for many years. Its been brought to the attention of agnecies and there was even a sit down with him by some of his former students. It went nowhere. Students were leaving his full cave classes without proper frog kicks on an exceptionally regular basis. The agency (I wont say who) did absolutely nothing. He was a big name that brought in students.

 

[BoltSnap]

Very basically, NAUI does not have the same standards as the GUE curriculum. As Ken has stated and I have also witnessed, oversight of instructors is not a thing.

Not sure if Ken was talking about "course standards" above. In terms of QA/oversight, I know for fact that NAUI investigates complaints and reports of standards infringements and takes action. They even send people to investigate to far away places. I was asked to come in to give my "testimony" once (among several other instructors who were questioned) and they took most severe action against the accused few months later. I know of other instances but I can't give further details. They do investigate once legitimate reports of infractions are brought to their attention. They do this more than other agencies I know. I am an instructor with several agencies (some active and some not).

You mention GUE, you have to realize that GUE is a very tiny agency and very limited in geographical representation. No doubt that GUE has top standards for them but NAUI does too. I manage a NAUI instructor only private group and the consistent complaint about NAUI's technical diving program is that it is very restrictive, meaning higher, standards.

I pick my classes based on instructor not agency.

I start with the agency since the agency sets the ground for the instructor to teach. If the agency is crap or has lower standards from the get go, it will be difficult to imagine that their instructors are any good especially if the agency requires their instructors teach to its standards nothing more or less. The instructor is a second factor too. It isn't just that the instructor is good or bad, I also consider their temperament and personality in the evaluation. They maybe great instructors but if their personality is shiit, I won't work with them. This applies to GUE instructors too. I know a couple of them who are just arrogant bastards and I won't even mix with them. There are others who are very nice people that I'd do training with but not some others.

At the end, whatever floats your boat. You decide what works for you and what criteria you use to decide who you train with. For me, if I take up cave diving, I am going to try to train with different instructors from different "respectable" agencies. Same thing for extreme technical wreck diving. This is especially important in my view if/when I dive in different parts/regions of the world.


My utmost respect to you and to @kensuf btw.

 

[rddvet]

Not sure if Ken was talking about "course standards" above. In terms of QA/oversight, I know for fact that NAUI investigates complaints and reports of standards infringements and takes action. They even send people to investigate to far away places. I was asked to come in to give my "testimony" once (among several other instructors who were questioned) and they took most severe action against the accused few months later. I know of other instances but I can't give further details. They do investigate once legitimate reports of infractions are brought to their attention. They do this more than other agencies I know. I am an instructor with several agencies (some active and some not).

You mention GUE, you have to realize that GUE is a very tiny agency and very limited in geographical representation. No doubt that GUE has top standards for them but NAUI does too. I manage a NAUI instructor only private group and the consistent complaint about NAUI's technical diving program is that it is very restrictive, meaning higher, standards.




I start with the agency since the agency sets the ground for the instructor to teach. If the agency is crap or has lower standards from the get go, it will be difficult to imagine that their instructors are any good especially if the agency requires their instructors teach to its standards nothing more or less. The instructor is a second factor too. It isn't just that the instructor is good or bad, I also consider their temperament and personality in the evaluation. They maybe great instructors but if their personality is shiit, I won't work with them. This applies to GUE instructors too. I know a couple of them who are just arrogant bastards and I won't even mix with them. There are others who are very nice people that I'd do training with but not some others.

At the end, whatever floats your boat. You decide what works for you and what criteria you use to decide who you train with. For me, if I take up cave diving, I am going to try to train with different instructors from different "respectable" agencies. Same thing for extreme technical wreck diving. This is especially important in my view if/when I dive in different parts/regions of the world.


My utmost respect to you and to @kensuf btw.

Just to clarify, of all the “big” agencies, I think naui does a very good job. And I will agree from experiences I’ve seen in the past they are much better than most at investigating problems and problems instructors when compared to agencies such as padi. I would say they honestly take it more seriously than the cds does.
But there have been some very problematic instructors that were allowed to slide by due to their names.

 

[BoltSnap]

But there have been some very problematic instructors that were allowed to slide by due to their names.

The "celebrity" syndrome I guess. I hope and expect this syndrome to be the exception and had happened with a very small number over the decades I have been affiliated with NAUI (Gosh, it is almost 40 years now). I hope also that they would take action if there are official complaints to NAUI's HQ.