Cost of tech?

[scubamarketing]

Here's my personal quandary as someone looking to move from recreational instruction to being a tech student:

Gear costs money. Fine. Training costs money. Fine. Travel costs money. Fine. But when you're looking at all three, to get the level of training I'd like, I'd be looking at another 5 figure budget.

I get that much of my handful of sets of gear from my teaching days won't really apply to tech training, so I can budget for that.

I'm an instructor and have helped train other recreational instructors, so I know what to look for or suggest when looking for training there. But I want to learn doubles, sidemount, rebreather, caves, wrecks, trimix...I think. I hunger for knowledge so want to learn it all. I want to know what gear and procedures I need for ANY dive, but have no clue what to look for in an instructor. And the few tech instructors I've emailed all argue about what gear is acceptable, so if I did it their way, I'd need to buy almost completely new sets for each specific strain of tech. So I either have to interview instructors based on "will they work with my gear?" or what?

I live in Oregon. For tech, there's no caves, there aren't wrecks, I can go to Seattle, but even that requires lodging expenses and not a ton to see from what I've been told. Beyond that, I'm travelling and to make it worthwhile, spending a month at least.

So when I look at all the classes I think I want to take, budget in some more for anything I might not even be aware exists, plus multiple sets of gear to make multiple instructors happy, this is going to cost a fortune. Plus it's a ton of frustrating work to even get to the first day of class.

No, the cost of training isn't unreasonable, but the cost to my time to figure it all out is costing me a fortune.

 

[rlynch]

My advise would be to pick an agency and stay with the standards there.
If you go GUE there are instructors in seattle and vancouver area. the gear list for all classes is going to be 90% the same.

I can't speak for other agencys and see the conflicting gear and procedures often which leads to a lot of relearning for a specific class which you may or may not adopt going forword. Seems like a waste to me.
Simple stuff like hose configuration, which hand you hold your can light in, etc. Consistancy makes a lot of sense as you progress through the courses.

I don't know the oregon region but i'm sure there are a lot of "tech" dives there that are worthwhile. Deep or otherwise.
My 2 cents - ymmv

 

[gsk3]

If you go GUE there are instructors in seattle and vancouver area. the gear list for all classes is going to be 90% the same.

Well, 100% the same. You add stuff but everything you have so far carries over to the next step.

I can go to Seattle, but even that requires lodging expenses and not a ton to see from what I've been told.​

Seattle is beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.​

 

[DevonDiver]

It's a very different mindset, and the transition from applying 'recreational' to 'technical' perspectives can be a difficult mind exercise. Technical diving is getting popularized nowadays, especially due to the increasing visibility of organizations like GUE/UTD and the fact that PADI have finally grasped the 'tech' market and promoting it to the max. All of that marketing makes tech more desirable to the masses, but doesn't change it's nature - it's a highly specialized and very 'commitment heavy' form of diving.

If you live in Oregon, with no access to caves or wrecks, then it's worth asking the honest question: "why?" In addition to cost of training and equipment, technical diving capability requires a much higher level of familiarity than recreational diving - because the skills foundation has to be kept at a very high level. If you won't be doing technical dives on a regular basis, then the skills/experience degradation may prove (too) excessive between the opportunities you get to utilize your training on real technical dives.

I've always been interested in cave diving - and have access to some fantastic training. However, I wouldn't have regular access to caves, and that's meant I didn't take up the opportunity to do the training. I feel it'd be a waste of money, given my location/circumstances. The same is true for teaching Trimix... where I live and dive in the Philippines there aren't many deep dives to do (max depth 50-60m)... and, even then, not much opportunity to get out and hit those deeper spots. Certainly, most of the interesting wrecks lie in less than 130ft of water. Thus, my mixed-gas diving skills get rusty - at least, to a level where I don't feel that I have the familiarity and expertise to offer the highest levels of instruction in conducting trimix dives. My yard-stick in terms of familiarity being that I believe I should be using those skills every 1-2 weeks (000's, not 00's of dives per year). The same situation also accounts for my decision not to pursue CCR qualification - it'd simply be a waste of money for the dives I do... and training would fade too much between dives to keep it 'fresh' at a level I'd be happy with.

As a consequence, I focus my efforts, training, commitment and investment in the type of diving that I can do, namely; technical wreck diving on backmount and/or sidemount in the 200ft range. Accelerated deco is vital due to extensive bottom times, but not due to extensive depths. To chase further qualifications beyond that would, in my mind, simply be card-collecting for the 'prestige'... and that'd be false prestige.

You're only as good as your last dive using those skills - so if your last dive was 12 months ago on holiday.... that won't be very good.

If you only want 'knowledge', then there's ample supply of media (electronic and paper) that supplies it. Skills is a different matter... and that where the investment and commitment in terms of time, money and effort comes in. If there's not going to be much 'pay-back' for that commitment, then it's probably a bad investment.

 

[rlynch]

Well, 100% the same. You add stuff but everything you have so far carries over to the next step.





Seattle is beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.[/COLOR][/LEFT]

i did not want to overstate it - the basic kit is 100% the same for all levels, the other 10% i was thinking about consists of stage & deco bottles, reels, etc
either way what you learn carries to the next couse 100%

totally agree on seattle - i'm there reasonably often.

 

[waterpirate]

Here's my personal quandary as someone looking to move from recreational instruction to being a tech student:

Gear costs money. Fine. Training costs money. Fine. Travel costs money. Fine. But when you're looking at all three, to get the level of training I'd like, I'd be looking at another 5 figure budget.

I get that much of my handful of sets of gear from my teaching days won't really apply to tech training, so I can budget for that.

I'm an instructor and have helped train other recreational instructors, so I know what to look for or suggest when looking for training there. But I want to learn doubles, sidemount, rebreather, caves, wrecks, trimix...I think. I hunger for knowledge so want to learn it all. I want to know what gear and procedures I need for ANY dive, but have no clue what to look for in an instructor. And the few tech instructors I've emailed all argue about what gear is acceptable, so if I did it their way, I'd need to buy almost completely new sets for each specific strain of tech. So I either have to interview instructors based on "will they work with my gear?" or what?

I live in Oregon. For tech, there's no caves, there aren't wrecks, I can go to Seattle, but even that requires lodging expenses and not a ton to see from what I've been told. Beyond that, I'm travelling and to make it worthwhile, spending a month at least.

So when I look at all the classes I think I want to take, budget in some more for anything I might not even be aware exists, plus multiple sets of gear to make multiple instructors happy, this is going to cost a fortune. Plus it's a ton of frustrating work to even get to the first day of class.

No, the cost of training isn't unreasonable, but the cost to my time to figure it all out is costing me a fortune.

The bottom line is you need to start slow and see where it goes. I am knowhere near where I thought I would be going in the beginning. Your wanting to do it all is an awfully big picture to look at from the starting line.

In the beginning you do what your instructor tells you. The gear configuration included. After you have enough knowledge and dives you begin to decide for yourself what kit to use and how. If you want standardisation accrossed the board than gue/utd is definately for you. They have a huge presance on the left coast.

You should stop by the DIR forum, they have cookies, and talk to them to help you sort your thoughts out.
Eric

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Cost of tech is insignificant when compared to those that say that they want it compared to those that go and do it.

There are no shortcuts. There is no perfect training agency. There is no perfect instructor.

You either make it happen, learn from your mistakes and progress or you pontificate about it on websites.

 

[boulderjohn]

There are no shortcuts.

But the length of the different paths can be significantly different.

There is no doubt that the student entering tech has a very difficult task in determining what is best. Dive agencies are not really clear to potential students on what it takes to meet their requirements. There are cases where the difference in the time, effort, and money required to reach a certain level of certification with one agency is tremendously different from another agency. You can argue that the longer and more expensive agency is turning out the better diver, but at some point you have to ask yourself if it is all worth it, since the other agency seems to be producing plenty of safe divers. You have to weigh all the variables to decide what is best, and, unfortunately, it is extremely hard to identify the variables before weighing.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

But the length of the different paths can be significantly different.

There is no doubt that the student entering tech has a very difficult task in determining what is best. Dive agencies are not really clear to potential students on what it takes to meet their requirements. There are cases where the difference in the time, effort, and money required to reach a certain level of certification with one agency is tremendously different from another agency. You can argue that the longer and more expensive agency is turning out the better diver, but at some point you have to ask yourself if it is all worth it, since the other agency seems to be producing plenty of safe divers. You have to weigh all the variables to decide what is best, and, unfortunately, it is extremely hard to identify the variables before weighing.

I enlist mentors as opposed to available instructors. My average "technical" course is successfully completed with multiple agency certifications. Most of them cost less than generally advertised prices and the instructors are typically published and well established in the community. I don't do cash to c-card. I enjoy every second of my training as I get it from folks that pioneer the field. I find it quite rewarding as they take me places and actually care about my comprehension.

Cost is quite secondary.

 

[OkiMike]

To the OP, in simple terms: lots.

In GUE training alone, not including gear, just training and getting to that training (though not including the cost of time off from work either), I've spent over $25,000.

I had to check it thrice to verify, but it's true. That includes DIR-F, Tech 1, Tech 2 (and testing out of it on a second occasion), Cave 1, DPV 1, and the DIR-F ITC.

Travel accounts for $5000 approximately and testing out of Tech 2 at a second date about $1000, so that brings it down to $19,000 roughly in core costs. Then again, I will need to retake Cave 1 since the first class was cancelled midweek when the other student walked out and left me hanging, and after a half year hiatus from teaching internships, I'll likely need to do at least two or three more before I'm ready to be evaluated. So all-in, I'll still spend another $7,000 in the process to travel and study.

But is it worth it? Yes, every penny.