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Stuart, you clearly must have liked your instructor a lot, and I understand that, because I really liked mine, too. So it makes sense, in a way, that you would defend him . . . but you may eventually come to see, as I did over time, that just because you like the guy and YOU think what he did was reasonable does not make it so. In my experience, instructors who do what yours did also do other things during their classes to reduce the time and effort they have to invest in teaching. These shortcuts are not obvious to the OW student, who has never taken a diving class before, but they are obvious to other instructors who see both the process and the end result.

This is not about you. You chose a dive shop with a very reasonable expectation of being taught in a professional and responsible way. We are trying to tell you that you weren't, and that it's worrisome that the person who did teach you broke a major, and as RJP describes it, non-negotiable standard of training. That's just not the behavior of an instructor who is really going above and beyond to produce well-trained, confident, and adequately prepared students.

I have a friend who is a man I very much like, but I have seen him teach. The pool sessions are all done in one day, and students do each skill only until they do it successfully, but not again, because the schedule doesn't permit it. He arranges his open water dives to do the required 15 minute tour at the outset, and bring the students back to the float to run quickly through their skills so that the dives can all be done and everybody can leave by noon.

To contrast that, our shop's program involves 9 pool sessions of 90 minutes each. Each student demonstrates his skills to the instructor, and then is turned loose with his buddy to free swim in the deep end. The DMs have free rein to request additional performances of any skill the student has done for the instructor, so the average student will, for example, clear his mask -- while swimming -- a dozen or more times by the end of the class. The open water dives are arranged so that no more than two students are ever doing skills at once; they run through the skills, and are handed off to DMs for the tour, which is supposed to last as long as their gas or their thermal tolerance will allow. We do two dives each day, and never leave the dive site before 2 or 3 pm.

Which student do you think gets the better preparation? Even if someone is very talented, do you not think they benefit from more instructional time to cement their skills?
 
I am back to this thread for one last post - to share my eating of crow.

I arrived at work this morning to be greeted by one of my co-workers who was in my class - who was at the quarry yesterday. "Where were you yesterday?" "Ummm, what?" That's right. If you've ready many of my other posts from other threads, you have probably already gotten that I have been a bit, shall we say, eager.

Apparently, everyone else "got" that we did not have to come back to the quarry yesterday BUT that that would mean that we would still have to do 2 more dives to be considered complete. We only actually got in and out of the water twice on Saturday, but we did all the skills, with meetings and instruction on the surface in between. I misconstrued all that as counting for separate dives and that, by going through all the skills, the message that we didn't have to come back on Sunday meant we would be "done". No, it just meant that we did all the skills, but technically we only did 2 dives and not coming back on Sunday meant I would have to complete the remaining 2 dives at a later date.

So, my co-workers were there and finished yesterday while I was sitting home posting back and forth with you all about what turns out is a non-issue.

I still feel like there is a whole lot of assuming and condescension here. And I'm certainly not happy to learn that I didn't complete my OW cert like I thought I did. But, in a way I am glad to realize that my instructor is not the terrible person that some of you have asserted.

And now I am out.
 
Stuart-

Interesting turn of events... and I commend you on your willingness to take responsability for a miscommunication... it happens. What I REALLY like...is the fact that your humble enough to recognize the situation for what it is, and communicate that in a clear manner. That tells me ALOT about you as a diver...and thats EXACTLY the kind of buddy I want to dive with!!
Remember...you've done nothing wrong...and evidently the entire process was unclear. It's a great opportunity to get a glimpse inside the minds of the instructor cadre.... the overwhelming meassage being.." The student comes first".
If you can't finish up O/W before Mx...make advance arrangments for a "Referral"..with a shop down there. It'll cost some money..but you can finish up!!

Call me if you ever get to Wi... I'll dive with ya!

Bubs
 
I still feel like there is a whole lot of assuming and condescension here. And I'm certainly not happy to learn that I didn't complete my OW cert like I thought I did. But, in a way I am glad to realize that my instructor is not the terrible person that some of you have asserted.

And now I am out.

The assumptions were based off of your input.

In light of the information you posted, it seems your instructor is on point. Once agian, realize that our assertions of his professionalism as an instructor was based on the fact that WE were advised by YOU that you did 4 dives in one day. So you can drop the snarkyness out of your attitude towards the folks that blasted your instructor.

At least now you have an idea how seriously the professionals in this industry take training standards, and maybe with a little bit of reflection you will also know WHY we take training standards so seriously.

Finish your last 2 certification dives and go have some fun diving. Maybe we will see you on the boats around here next season.
 
So, at the end of the day, it's just another ScubaBoard flurry of butthurt with a dash of I told you so and a pinch of your instructor's a moron thrown in, all over a perception that wasn't real. Turns out that neither Stuart nor anyone else really went through an OW course with a standards violation, and Mike hopes to, but probably won't.

Stuart, I know you won't come back to this thread :wink: but please let us know when you do finish your OW. Don't tell us any of the particulars, just tell us you finished. Let us congratulate you, because we do have your best wishes and thoughts in our hearts. Remember, this is social media, and you can't see my face as I type this. 90% of communication is not verbal, and that's the 90% that gets missed from my keyboard to yours.
 
Stuart-

Interesting turn of events... and I commend you on your willingness to take responsability for a miscommunication...

Thanks! I came back to this thread just to take the rest of my lumps. In my mind, though I may be an idiot, I hoped at least someone would give me some credit for being willing to admit and take the heat for it. So, like I said, thank you. :)

The assumptions were based off of your input.

In light of the information you posted, it seems your instructor is on point. Once agian, realize that our assertions of his professionalism as an instructor was based on the fact that WE were advised by YOU that you did 4 dives in one day. So you can drop the snarkyness out of your attitude towards the folks that blasted your instructor.

There have been a lot more assumptions than just about my instructor. And a lot more condescension than just in this thread.

So, at the end of the day, it's just another ScubaBoard flurry of butthurt with a dash of I told you so and a pinch of your instructor's a moron thrown in, all over a perception that wasn't real. Turns out that neither Stuart nor anyone else really went through an OW course with a standards violation, and Mike hopes to, but probably won't.

Stuart, I know you won't come back to this thread :wink: but please let us know when you do finish your OW. Don't tell us any of the particulars, just tell us you finished. Let us congratulate you, because we do have your best wishes and thoughts in our hearts. Remember, this is social media, and you can't see my face as I type this. 90% of communication is not verbal, and that's the 90% that gets missed from my keyboard to yours.

Wookie, I really appreciate your comments here and in reply to some of my other posts. Thanks for accepting my moronitude as what it was. :)
 
"Turns out that neither Stuart nor anyone else really went through an OW course with a standards violation" - I'm not so sure about that. I don't know the standards for this agency - but in a PADI OW course skills can't be done sooner than the dive specified unless they are "dive flexible" skills.
 
"Turns out that neither Stuart nor anyone else really went through an OW course with a standards violation" - I'm not so sure about that. I don't know the standards for this agency - but in a PADI OW course skills can't be done sooner than the dive specified unless they are "dive flexible" skills.

Well, it wasn't a PADI course, and different courses have different skill sets for each dive. WRSTC has required skills, but don't specify which dive include which skills. I would say that had Stuart gone back yesterday, he would have found himself doing a full dive 3 and 4 skill set, regardless of what he accomplished on Saturday. I highly doubt that his instructors did 2 "dives for training and pleasure" or whatever it is written on my PADI slates.
 
I arrived at work this morning to be greeted by one of my co-workers who was in my class - who was at the quarry yesterday. "Where were you yesterday?" "Ummm, what?" That's right. If you've ready many of my other posts from other threads, you have probably already gotten that I have been a bit, shall we say, eager.
...
So, my co-workers were there and finished yesterday while I was sitting home posting back and forth with you all about what turns out is a non-issue.

And the lesson learned is: Go Diving instead of hanging out on Scubaboard.
 
My ow / Aow+3 costs £800 combined,, if I only get one day real diving for my ow I will be pissed off..

Ps what exactly is AOw + 3, it got sold to me as an add on but in not sure what I'm getting


Mike
 

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