Completed OW today

[RJP]

I'm looking now I might log a complaint into padi


Mike

If you haven't done the dives yet... there's nothing to complain about.

---------- Post added November 2nd, 2014 at 08:37 PM ----------

Well, if you google Bristow VA and SDI you will find the shop in question.

In looking on the SDI site I see four SDI shops within 10-20min of Bristow VA. You may be unfairly assuming the OP trained with the shop nearest his home. He may have trained with a shop near his girlfriend's house, his work location, her work location, etc.

 

[Omisson]

So long as u use the dive planner computer, and have enough si and ur not cold whsts the massive problem?


Mike

It violates not only agency standards but the accrediting body (RSTC) standards- which has legal implications.

Be safe diving on your training dives- don't let them do more than two a day! It's healthier for you, the third in early training is pushing it!

Dan

 

[ManuLani]

Congratulations Stuart on your accomplishment!

I hate to jump on the bandwagon here but 4 training dives really is a training standards violation that there is zero excuse for an instructor to be violating.

 

[stuartv]

I am done with this thread. I have gotten a bad taste in my mouth from several threads on ScubaBoard before and this is now the worst.

Several people here have been really nice and genuinely helpful to me. But, there seems to be way more people here that are judgmental condescending holier-than-thou types who automatically and instantly draw conclusions about people and events that they don't know anything (or virtually nothing) about. And now you're telling me that you've decided I am not sufficiently well trained to be entrusted with an OW certification card and your good-intentions-because-you-know-better-than-me-or-my-instructor may actually cost me my C card (pending further training)?!?

Excuse me while I step away from my computer for a while and try to remember why I come here and why I even thought about sharing my happiness here.

 

[PhatD1ver]

Per Section 6.6.3 of the SDI instructors manual states: "A maximum of 3 scuba dives per day are allowed." (Version 13.2, Revised 07/01/2013)

I wonder what other standards your instructor violated during his/her conduct of the course. Perhaps you would have done better on "the last skill of the day" if you had a night a good night's sleep between Dive 3 and Dive 4... as the standard would have allowed for?

I don't have any info handy about max depths for each of the four SDI OW course dives (other than max of 60ft for any OW dive)... but assuming typical progression dives 3 & 4 are usually deeper than 1 & 2, so I'd guess you ended up doing some reverse-profile diving today as well. What were the max depths of each of your four dives.

This is a pretty significant violation in my mind. Having an OW student do FOUR dives in a day - in cold water no less - presents multiple safety issues.

Okay, so now let me ask the crowd hammering on the 4 dive rule...

my LDS held to the 3 "TRAINING" dive rule, and the FOURTH dive of the day was a 'fun dive' guided by my instructor. And the nerve of that guy to actually practice OW skills in the middle of my 'FUN' dive... the next day, I finished OW, and did two dives toward AOW.

I get the rule exists, personally, having just followed two of my adult kids thru their OW training, I think that 'fudging' the standards happens to fit the conditions. Both my daughter and my son completed their "open water" dives in a geothermal pool in Utah. The pool is about 25 meters across and 60feet deep. But in my mind, that is a 'confined water' dive, even if the depth exceeds the minimum standard for confined water by PADI. Now, I can see why they didn't pile in the car, drive three hours to Blue Lake, freeze carrying gear to the Lake, and then dive and freeze in between dives, but again, conditions drove how the training was conducted.

That said, I've already arranged with the LDS that is supporting our dive vacation in Puerto Galera to plan for a couple checkout/training dives for them before we go off to play at of the other sites.

 

[Wookie]

Okay, so now let me ask the crowd hammering on the 4 dive rule...

my LDS held to the 3 "TRAINING" dive rule, and the FOURTH dive of the day was a 'fun dive' guided by my instructor. And the nerve of that guy to actually practice OW skills in the middle of my 'FUN' dive... the next day, I finished OW, and did two dives toward AOW.

I quoted the WRSTC (that would be World Recreational Scuba Training Council) rules. There is no 4th dive in a day. Call it a fun dive, call it William, it doesn't matter, a 4th dive in a day for non-certified divers is breaking standards.

A student is not expected to know standards. Standards are for instructors to know. I know Stuart is now mad at all of us, and I feel badly about that, because it isn't about him.

 

[RJP]

I think that 'fudging' the standards happens to fit the conditions.

Standards are not conditional. They cannot be "fudged." Why? Because they are STANDARDS.

There is really nothing difficult about this concept.

 

[stuartv]

I came back to add one last thought.

I am an experienced (29 years) motorcyclist. Roadracing, dirt racing, street riding, woods riding. I am also experienced as a motorcycle riding instructor. I know how to teach. I know how cold affects people.

And I also know that the best judge of whether a student has mastered a subject is an experienced instructor who knows the student. Not a blind adherence to a standardized curriculum or testing protocol.

 

[TMHeimer]

I hope Stuart continues with SB, as pointed out, the criticisms are not of him. I don't think there is any "holier than thou" either. Experienced instructors just pointing out facts. We all know that some like Stuart (and myself) could do 4 dives wet in that temp. water quite easily, especially if the weather is warm enough for the SIs. But the standard is there. Many people would find this cold. There is the possibility of hypothermia, or at least poor judgement due to contending with cold. So the standard exists to protect all. Much like a lot of the laws we have today--how many times does one think "Geez, what a stupid law we just don't need"? Then there is the self regulation we have which so far keeps the govt. out of scuba.
Personally, I would find doing all 4 checkout dives in one day to be an awful lot mentally. I don't know if it's the same shop that I googled, but there is one in that area that does all the classwork (ASSUME e learning) and pool dives in ONE DAY. As I've often posted, I'm glad I didn't take the weekend OW course with TWO pool days. How much can you cram into your head at once?

As far as "conditions" and "fudging"-- You have to find a way to keep it within standards. I know of a LDS in Miss. that does their OW checkout dives on the FL panhandle. They scout out motels over there and set it up for the students. It's a 3 hour drive, so the motel night makes it easy to do in 2 days.

 

[tomfcrist]

I came back to add one last thought.

I am an experienced (29 years) motorcyclist. Roadracing, dirt racing, street riding, woods riding. I am also experienced as a motorcycle riding instructor. I know how to teach. I know how cold affects people.

And I also know that the best judge of whether a student has mastered a subject is an experienced instructor who knows the student. Not a blind adherence to a standardized curriculum or testing protocol.

You have to realize that this is a self regulated industry. If we didn't believe in and enforce our standards of training , the government would have stepped in long ago and done that for us.

Do I think what your instructor did would actually cause you harm? Probably not.

Do I think it shows a blatant disregard for the standards that he is professionally bound to comply with/enforce? Absolutely.

The backlash here isn't about you. Your instructor however is a stain on every dive professionals favorite shirt. He requires some oxy clean.

I live in hampton. It's a little far from you, but if you want any classes in the future and would like to see how a class is supposed to be taught...come see me.