Stuart, congratulations on your certification.
Can I ask out of interest how long were each of your 4 dives?
Can I ask out of interest how long were each of your 4 dives?
Completed OW today
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And how deep would be of interest as well.
rockystock1
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So long as u use the dive planner computer, and have enough si and ur not cold whsts the massive problem?
Mike
Mike
What agency are you dealing with? I don't know of a single one where four training dives in a single day is not a violation of the standards that the instructor is held to. Violating standards is a problem in and of itself - computers, planners, and SI's notwithstanding.
Ask you instructor whether four dives a day is within the standards of the agency whose name he is teaching under. The answer will tell you a lot about him.
rockystock1
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I will rjp, I will tell you his answer on Sunday, I'll have a lump in my throat but I will do it just to see his reaction
Mike
Mike
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Well, if you google Bristow VA and SDI you will find the shop in question. After being a NAUI instructor for 18 years, all I can say is.........wow
Oh and Millbrook Quarry
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Oh and Millbrook Quarry
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rockystock1
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I'm looking now I might log a complaint into padi
Mike
Mike
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It doesn't go against agency rules because it's a good idea, it goes against agency rules because the RSTC and the WRSTC prohibit it. From the WRSTC (which SDI has signed on to) rule 5.2.4 of the open water standards states:
It isn't just a good idea to follow the rules, it's what keeps the government out of our business. The RSTC and WRSTC govern all aspects of scuba instruction, and maintain the minimum standards for certification. The WRSTC and RSTC are made up of training agency representatives who set the standards.
Worse, the insurance company for the dive shop requires that all courses are conducted within standards. It has been shown again and again (DeWolf Vs. Kohler, et. al.) that failure to follow standards during initial training can have far reaching legal implications. In the quoted lawsuit, the only entity who did not stand successfully in court against DeWolf was the original certifying shop, who came to a settlement with DeWolf. This is many years after OW certification. I share an insurance company wth your shop, and we are all in an insurance pool. For the shop to blatantly disregard the standards of their agency puts all dive operators and instructors in defensive mode, because when one shop fails to follow standards, and is successfully sued, every instructor's rates go up. THAT's why so many instructors are so fervent that you file a QA with SDI about your shop.
I'd be willing to bet a geedunk (navy term for those who didn't serve, a candy bar or other small snack) and a little pile of cash that the owner of the shop has no knowledge of this standards violation. None of us can report it, as it has to be an eyewitness report, but I'll bet another small pile of cash that Brian Carney, president of SDI already has, or surely will on Monday morning. I have personal knowledge that it has already been brought to the attention of SDI employees.
and the rules may be found here: http://www.wrstc.com/downloads/03 - Open Water Diver.pdf
It isn't just a good idea to follow the rules, it's what keeps the government out of our business. The RSTC and WRSTC govern all aspects of scuba instruction, and maintain the minimum standards for certification. The WRSTC and RSTC are made up of training agency representatives who set the standards.
Worse, the insurance company for the dive shop requires that all courses are conducted within standards. It has been shown again and again (DeWolf Vs. Kohler, et. al.) that failure to follow standards during initial training can have far reaching legal implications. In the quoted lawsuit, the only entity who did not stand successfully in court against DeWolf was the original certifying shop, who came to a settlement with DeWolf. This is many years after OW certification. I share an insurance company wth your shop, and we are all in an insurance pool. For the shop to blatantly disregard the standards of their agency puts all dive operators and instructors in defensive mode, because when one shop fails to follow standards, and is successfully sued, every instructor's rates go up. THAT's why so many instructors are so fervent that you file a QA with SDI about your shop.
I'd be willing to bet a geedunk (navy term for those who didn't serve, a candy bar or other small snack) and a little pile of cash that the owner of the shop has no knowledge of this standards violation. None of us can report it, as it has to be an eyewitness report, but I'll bet another small pile of cash that Brian Carney, president of SDI already has, or surely will on Monday morning. I have personal knowledge that it has already been brought to the attention of SDI employees.
PADI has been getting student emails as a requiment when the instructor sends out for the certification cards. You should be getting a questionnaire asking about if certain standards were followed properly. Standards and procedures are taken VERY seriously by PADI..
I had 2 students that completed their pool and academics do with me in Westchester NY. They went to a resort in Roatan , 2 days before I got there with a group. We planned out that they would do ow dive 1 and 2 before I arrived and upon my arrival the next day I or one of the resort instructors would complete the dive last 2 certification dives.
Well when I arrived the students told me that they did ALL 4 training dives in 1 day. I said to them "really?"..the knuckle head instructor even signed off in their trading record log book all 4 dives in 1 day..I had a talk with the dive op manager and he sent the instructor to me. She was really nervous about seeing me. She discovered that I have an IDCS rating, not that the rating has any special pull at PADI, but she may not have known that! Her excuse was that she was not working the next day to do dive 3 and 4, so did it all in 1 day! I called bull**** on that one.
She knew she violated standards severly and was in danger of getting a quality assurance reprimand from PADI..begged me not to fill out a QA on her.
This tells me it was not the first trime she pulled this crap.
I thought about sending PADI an alert about this , as I should have,but really what will that solve? You can't cure STUPID, especially in a 3rd world country like Honduras. It was not like I was there and personally viewed the violations,could easily become a case of he said, she said.
So I explained to the students the situation and did the courtesy of going over the required skills with them over two dives just to be they are ok.
I'm sure Brian will be made aware of this if he hasn't already. I am supposed to talk to him Monday or Tuesday and will find out. Standards are standards for a reason. Some of those have already been brought up quite eloquently in this thread. Not just by instructors but by others who have an intimate understanding of how the brain works, processes information, and retains that knowledge. The other problem is that ignoring those standards in the name of expediency casts a very bad light on all instructors the next time an accident happens and it comes out that the diver's training was sub standard, was effectively shown that rules can be ignored, and that what matters is getting things done. Not how they get done, just that they get done.
In truth if standards were violated and the agency discovers this before the card is issued you may find that card gets delayed. The agency would have every right to do that since they need to make sure that if this was done, no other standards were ignored. They may decide that the instructor did not cover all the pool and classroom materials.
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