Classes still calling "HELP" during training at CSSP

[tedj01]

You're not supposed to bring it; but I think you can talk or yell about it? I don't think CSSP will mind if you talk to the fish about pizza and/or cheese, but PETA may?

 

[Timeliner]

You're not supposed to bring it; but I think you can talk or yell about it? I don't think CSSP will mind if you talk to the fish about pizza and/or cheese, but PETA may?

 

[freediver]

Please tell me what is exactly suppose to be said during an actual in water emergency from the stand point of the diver(s) in need...and any diver responding to assist?

Ideally? If people are around? "You sir/maam, call 911 and locate an AED, O2 unit and spine board and meet me at the dock/pier/edge/boat now!"

I don't think that your giving the human race enough credit. I mean really, if you are in a class where you yell something as rediculous as "Call for Pizza!"...are you truly saying that someone's natural instincts wouldn't come out and say "Call 911" or "Help" in an actual rescue?

Actually, I never said that or even implied such.

I don't see anything wrong with changing what everybody knows you are "practicing" so that there isn't any confusion in the event of a real emergency. Forcing people to whisper, say, or yell for help or to call 911 is forcing people to cry wolf.

Where does the confusion lie in "scripting" what you would actually say in an emergency? Your just doing it in a manner that is heard and understood by those evaluating you. Forcing people to whisper in calling 911 is forcing them to cry wolf? Are you serious?

In the case of an emergency, do I think someone who was not trained to yell for help might get so caught up in dealing with the victim that they may indeed forget to yell for help? Yes.

So your saying that a person confronted with an unconscious diver will remember all of the physical skills, however, the one thing they negate is to yell for help? Yet, your implying that two days of yelling pizza will make this a conditioned response?
Hey, promote it how you want to. I can simply say that I am compelled to continue doing what has worked for me for many years. I fully believe in "scripting" the message to ensure that the person will get the best care possible. I also feel that by having them discreetly tell me to call 911 etc... they are showing me a sense of control in an otherwise chaotic situation. But that's just me. Thanks for the discussion!

 

[texdiveguy]

Ideally? If people are around? "You sir/maam, call 911 and locate an AED, O2 unit and spine board and meet me at the dock/pier/edge/boat now!"

I know you are serious in your reply and thanks for that....and I can tell by your conviction of using the word HELP in your student Rescue training you are convinced that is the correct way to conduct such training. I can with conviction also express to you that when it comes down to the actual real deal....you will do what is best for that incident just as I found myself doing. I was lucky in that I did not have to instruct the shore crowd in the script you provided above.....though I can also tell you it would probably been much more to the point and not so detailed! The above all important thing to remember is staying calm and remembering you got only one chance to help....and you better be up to the challenge or the ending results could be tragic. Get the training but remain very flexible in how you approach such life and death situations.

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

Ideally? If people are around? "You sir/maam, call 911 and locate an AED, O2 unit and spine board and meet me at the dock/pier/edge/boat now!"


Actually, I never said that or even implied such.


Where does the confusion lie in "scripting" what you would actually say in an emergency? Your just doing it in a manner that is heard and understood by those evaluating you. Forcing people to whisper in calling 911 is forcing them to cry wolf? Are you serious?


So your saying that a person confronted with an unconscious diver will remember all of the physical skills, however, the one thing they negate is to yell for help? Yet, your implying that two days of yelling pizza will make this a conditioned response?
Hey, promote it how you want to. I can simply say that I am compelled to continue doing what has worked for me for many years. I fully believe in "scripting" the message to ensure that the person will get the best care possible. I also feel that by having them discreetly tell me to call 911 etc... they are showing me a sense of control in an otherwise chaotic situation. But that's just me. Thanks for the discussion!

If you are whispering to only your rescue class and no one else can hear you I personally couldn't care what you saying. The problem the OP is talking about are rescue classes that are yelling out help and yelling out call 911 which can be overhead by many many people. That's the problem I have, not anyone whispering to the person next to them. I'm sure most here who have expressed concerns with saying help or call 911 during drills are thinking along these same lines.

 

[freediver]

I know you are serious in your reply and thanks for that....and I can tell by your conviction of using the word HELP in your student Rescue training you are convinced that is the correct way to conduct such training. I can with conviction also express to you that when it comes down to the actual real deal....you will do what is best for that incident just as I found myself doing. I was lucky in that I did not have to instruct the shore crowd in the script you provided above.....though I can also tell you it would probably been much more to the point and not so detailed! The above all important thing to remember is staying calm and remembering you got only one chance to help....and you better be up to the challenge or the ending results could be tragic. Get the training but remain very flexible in how you approach such life and death situations.

Great points here! You know, the most important skill that I try and develop in my students, whether they be in Rescue, lifeguarding or CPR/First Aid is their ability to think and reason within a crisis situation. This is where I don't just look for them to meet the requirement of calling for help but rather, think about what resources they need or have to give the victim the best chance of survival. This is rehearsed mentally, physically and, yes, verbally to ensure that it becomes as much of an automated response as possible.

If you are whispering to only your rescue class and no one else can hear you I personally couldn't care what you saying. The problem the OP is talking about are rescue classes that are yelling out help and yelling out call 911 which can be overhead by many many people. That's the problem I have, not anyone whispering to the person next to them. I'm sure most here who have expressed concerns with saying help or call 911 during drills are thinking along these same lines.

Fair enough and I will be sure and keep my groups quiet unless it is an actual emergency!

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

I thought I'd let everyone know that I just heard back from Tim Hataway (WebMaster for CSSP) and apparently Robert (owner of CSSP) has told all instructors that the shouting of help or call 911 is NOT ALLOWED. Apparently they did take the time to contact PADI and they were also told that calling for help and such is not required per standards, as previously established. I personally think this is a great rule and fully support them on this.

On another note, I encourage anyone who is out at CSSP and notices a class not following this rule to speak up. If you're not comfortable talking to the instructor get Robert, let him set them straight. It won't take long before everyone is aware of this rule.

 

[khacken]

Woo hoo! Thanks for the clarification on this!

 

[Colliam7]

Calling for help, call 911, whether in a rescue class or for practice is just plain stupid! UNLESS there is a real emergency!!!

I fully understand the sentiment. But, I do not agree that it is necessarily stupid. It can be managed properly. I completely agree that the way it is often done is ‘just plain stupid’.

Because the instructor might be 50 feet away on shore.

That practice is part of the challenge. The Instructor should be in the water close to the rescuer and victim, or a CA should be in the water, not on shore. This is true for evaluation purposes, among other things. And, IMMEDIATELY AFTER the rescuer calls for help, the Instructor or CA should calmly say (in the same tone, at the same volume), ‘Do not call for help. This is a only a drill.’ This is also part of the process recommended by PADI and it works well. Although I don’t think there was a particular need to change from ‘Call for pizza’ to ‘Call for help’, it is now part of the recommended approach (not a standard, as previously noted), so we use it in our Rescue courses. Six of one, half-dozen of the other.

I am particularly bothered by the blanket announcements, often made on shore at the beginning of a multi-student Rescue Course, to the effect that if ANYONE calls for help the request should be ignored, just because a course is being conducted. There seems to be a sort of blind faith reliance on communication of that message, to any and all people in the water at the time the announcement is made on shore, or to any and all who enter the water later, to understand that a class is in progress. That sets up the problem scenario to which many on the thread are reacting. At lakes and quarries being used by multiple groups for training and for recreation, such announcements are dangerous.

 

[jac]

I am particularly bothered by the blanket announcements, often made on shore at the beginning of a multi-student Rescue Course, to the effect that if ANYONE calls for help the request should be ignored, just because a course is being conducted.

that is exactly why classes should not call for help during a drill.


jac