"Chicken Wing" 101 please

[crlavoie]

Many people have their hog harnesses too tight. I can get in and out of mine in a drysuit with wrist computer, slate and bottom timer already on my forearms - and I am 45, large shouldered and not what you'd call lean or overly flexible.

A pivot ring harness is an advantage only if you plan to switch back and forth between a drysuit with heavy under garments and a 3mm wet suit or even t-shirt. In that case, the cross chest strap helps take up the slack with a thin wetsuit without having to re-adjust anything else.

The new Halcyon harness makes a one piece webbing approach easily adjustable - but it solves a non problem, is overly complex and I am not a real fan of their solution for the hip d-ring. In my opinion it is targeted more at the sport diving/crossover crowd than serious technical divers.

The transplate harness, transpac etc, utilizes steel plates to handle the intersection of waist and shoulder straps, but in my opinion it takes up too much space on the waist band and brings the shoulder straps too far forward. Thinner divers will note the loss of waist band real estate as an even more serious issue.

I have a Nomad (based on the transpac harness) and it will shortly be modified to utlize standard webbing running to sewn loops at the lower ends to thread the waist band through.

I just don't see many people ever gravitating away from a hog harness, so it is my first choice in recommending a harness to any new technical diver. Plus I have yet to see an instructor object to one and that is not the case with pivot ring and in particular quick release harnesses.

Agreed and the only thing I would add is simply, don't over think it. It's as simple as it looks. As DA noted, there have been many attempts to solve a non-problem. One of my buddies has terrible mobility problems in his shoulders from over 20 years of masonry work and can get in and out with no trouble (and manipulate valves etc). My GUE-F instructor had reconstructive surgery on both of his shoulders and also has no issues.

It's that one piece of gear that for some reason, looks SO simple that we feel a need to mess with it. Just set it and forget it. Switching suits? No big deal, it takes all of 5 minutes to adjust including the time to put your suit on.

 

[fnfalman]

Agreed and the only thing I would add is simply, don't over think it. It's as simple as it looks. As DA noted, there have been many attempts to solve a non-problem. One of my buddies has terrible mobility problems in his shoulders from over 20 years of masonry work and can get in and out with no trouble (and manipulate valves etc). My GUE-F instructor had reconstructive surgery on both of his shoulders and also has no issues.

It's that one piece of gear that for some reason, looks SO simple that we feel a need to mess with it. Just set it and forget it. Switching suits? No big deal, it takes all of 5 minutes to adjust including the time to put your suit on.

If it's so simple and doesn't need to be messed with then why is the GUE boys and Halcyon come up with the Infinity/Cinch harness? Please don't tell me that GUE and Halcyon don't know nuthin' about no DIR diving.

 

[TSandM]

I think the biggest driver for the cinch system was for shops and instructors who need to refit harnesses to different people all the time, and for people with physical disabilities that make it very difficult to manage a one piece harness otherwise.

As has been said, the biggest problem with getting in and out of a harness is having it too tight. I was amazed, when I worked with Bob Sherwood, at how much he let my shoulder straps out (to lower the tanks, to work on my trim). If the crotch strap is taken up a commeasurate amount, the rig remains stable but far easier to get in and out of.

As already mentioned, the "chicken wing" refers to entering the harness by bending your arm and pushing your elbow through first, or getting out by bringing the wrist through first. One thing that helps a lot is either to get in before putting your gauges on, or to remember to turn them to the inside of your arm. Not much you can do about your dry glove rings, though!

 

[halocline]

If it's so simple and doesn't need to be messed with then why is the GUE boys and Halcyon come up with the Infinity/Cinch harness? Please don't tell me that GUE and Halcyon don't know nuthin' about no DIR diving.

Yeah, lets just assume that the dive gear manufacturers know exactly what's best for us and would never design gear based on potential profit from selling it.

 

[Kern]

I think the biggest driver for the cinch system was for shops and instructors who need to refit harnesses to different people all the time, and for people with physical disabilities that make it very difficult to manage a one piece harness otherwise.

Valhalla, could you tell the thread what sort of equipment you & your instructor used during fundies.

Yeah, lets just assume that the dive gear manufacturers know exactly what's best for us and would never design gear based on potential profit from selling it.

I'm afraid I too am a bit of a cynic. My respect for GUE has diminished somewhat since I found out this contrivance is considered a hog rig.

 

[Guy Alcala]

I think the biggest driver for the cinch system was for shops and instructors who need to refit harnesses to different people all the time, and for people with physical disabilities that make it very difficult to manage a one piece harness otherwise.

As has been said, the biggest problem with getting in and out of a harness is having it too tight. I was amazed, when I worked with Bob Sherwood, at how much he let my shoulder straps out (to lower the tanks, to work on my trim). If the crotch strap is taken up a commeasurate amount, the rig remains stable but far easier to get in and out of.

As already mentioned, the "chicken wing" refers to entering the harness by bending your arm and pushing your elbow through first, or getting out by bringing the wrist through first. One thing that helps a lot is either to get in before putting your gauges on, or to remember to turn them to the inside of your arm. Not much you can do about your dry glove rings, though!

I have my harness adjusted per the BAUE website:

BAUE How To Size a Backplate

Even so, I find it a struggle to get the harness on or (especially) off; flexibility is an issue for me. The webbing almost always snags on my wrist seals when taking it off; it snags even more whether putting on or removing if I wear my gauges/ slate etc. while doing so, albeit I don't normally rotate them inside. I'll have to give that a shot, although I expect there would still be space issues.

Having to put your gauges on last is a pain when diving from a small RIB, because there's not a lot of room onboard and the last thing you want is to be fooling around putting gauges on when everyone's bumping into each other. Ideally some/all clip their BP onto a line and put it over the side so they can gear up in the water, but I know that would be a real hassle for me to do, not to mention keeping track of the gauges/slate.

I've been diving for over two years with my basic harness and have put up with it, but it's always struck me as a less than ideal solution, especially compared to the backpack harnesses I've worn for almost 40 years. I can get in and out of them even with a heavily-loaded pack without giving it a thought, _because_ they're adjustable. So, I am very glad that I now have the option of an adjustable harness that has the reliability benefit of a single-piece harness, while (hopefully) ending what I regard as a totally unnecessary struggle to get in and out of my gear.

Guy

 

[DA Aquamaster]

DA, are you going sidemount?

Slowly, but for various reasons:

1. I like tiny tunnels,
2. Some of it is just being bored and needing a new challenge to keep me busy,
3. In some respects it feels better in the water, and
4. It's nice not to have to lift doubles.

On the negative side, I have decade and a half of experience in backmounted doubles and it will take awhile to be as solid and as comfortable in sidemount.

Oddly enough though, one of my goals is to simplify the harness and make it more hog like. Another is to avoid having one of what are often fairly messy hose arangements on sidemount rigs.

 

[Rock2r]

OP here: Interesting reading. In an effort to complete my rig in a timely manner, I think the smart money is to start with the simple harness and try it until I get everything dialed in. If it works for me, great. If I don't like it, I can go with a QR or Transplate and only be out a few bucks...instead of the other way around.

 

[halocline]

Slowly, but for various reasons

Well, if you really like it maybe someday you'll sell me a set of 85s.

 

[BabyDuck]

i'm not sure he has 85s...we're fat on 95s & 100s.