Cheap Bastard Divers

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look, I've had more than one major manufacturers CEO (President) - not some flunky sales rep (those are the ones who lie) tell me that thier competitors are shipping pallets of goods to the online sellers.

I have no problem with this if MAP pricing is done away with. It seems as though the goal is to put the dive shops out of business. Whenever I try to advertise a competitive price... I get a call from the sales rep telling me I'm in violation of the MAP policy and I'm threatended with having my dealership yanked.

You make a good point, one which LP fans often make themselves. The source of the "problem" is the manufacturers, not the evil online retailer. Manufacturers like to play both sides of the fence, publicly supporting the LDS and encouraging customers to buy there while privately selling to LP where they are free of warranty obligations.

The issue is that most LDS owners are afraid to finger the manufacturer so throw all the blame at LP, having to make allegations of counterfeit gear or inferior gear or buying out failed dealers. They can't say it's the same current gear as in their shop because that would finger the manufacturer and small LDS owners are afraid of having their dealerships pulled. But when divers eventually find out the truth, they feel like the LDS owner lied to them and they are alienated against the LDS owner not the manufacturer.

BTW, you know that MAP doesn't apply to closeouts and since LP buys in huge quantities they are going to have closeouts with every model change. There's nothing wrong with closeouts, often the "new model" is no better than the older one just different so the manufacturer can cash in on those percentage of divers who always have to have the latest thing. I doubt it takes LP very long to blow out a line.
 
Ever heard anyone at a Gas station complaining about the price of gas with a $8 a gallon bottle of water in their hand? ($1 a Pint, 8 pints in a gallon)

The difference being that you don't buy 30 gallons of water at a time and in small packaged quntities.
 
Have I accurately observed this, or have I been sniffing too much glue?:lotsalove:

You haven't been sniffing too much glue, but apparently you have succumbed to the marketing hypnotics of the recreational scuba industry, which all too often tries to scare people into buying the most useless crap.

Examples:

You could die if....

...your computer is older than 5 years
...you buy a regulator that costs less than $650
...you dive with a non-weight integrated BC

...the list goes on.
 
Ever heard anyone at a Gas station complaining about the price of gas with a $8 a gallon bottle of water in their hand? ($1 a Pint, 8 pints in a gallon)
I simply HATE buying bottled water. Give me tap water.
 
You apparently have no idea what a dirty little world the Scuba Industry is... and it would take more time than I have to educate you... but please accept just one example of what goes on:

A dealer (Scuba Store) is offered tiered pricing based on the volume they buy from a manufacturer. It may look something like this for a given item:

Platinum $200 Gold $225 Silver $250 Bronze $300

Most mom and pop businesses buy at the bronze level and the very best (highest volume) dealers buy at the Platinum level. This system alone creates an inequity of $100.00 in this given example.

All dealers regardless of size buy into this program as part of an agreement with the manufacturers that they (the manufacturers) will not sell underhandly at lower than the platinum level to wholesalers such as Leisurepro and others. They buy into this because of a system known as MAP (or Minimum Advertised Pricing) which guarantees at least some profit margin for all dealers regardless of size. For the above example.. the MAP price may be $399.00.

Theoritically this means the mom and pop store will make $99 profit and the store that sells high volume is rewarded with a higher profit margin of $199. In the perfect world this works and everyone is happy. The mom and pop don't have to worry about the dealer who buys for $200.00 selling for less than they buy it for. Get it?

The problem is that the manufacturers have all lost their scruples and are selling to the wholesalers at below Platinum levels. In the above example they may sell the item to the wholesalers for $150... who then sell the items for $199 or less than any legitimate dealer can even buy it for.

There is literally no way for any legitimate dealer to compete anymore due to the Scuba Mafia (manufacturers in cohorts with the wholesalers.)

From the largest of legitimate dealers such as Scuba Toys to the smallest mom and pop shop... it is a struggle due to unethical business practices being perpetrated on the industry by greedy manufacturers who overproduce their goods - more and more in low level third world production facilities.

This is not the case with every manufacturer - but it is the case with more than you may expect. This is not a case of sour grapes my friend... this is a case of potential legal action against manufacturers for breach of contract.

If enough local shops banded together, perhaps something could be done... but until then... you should know that some - not all of what these online wholesalers sell is second runs, returns, recondition's, old inventory (sometimes 5 years or more) and counterfeit goods.

I don't care who likes it and who doesn't - these are the facts... and hopefully my example sheds some bright light on the dirty facts. I don't mind being an industry whistleblower... it is indeed time to fix this mess.

I was a US Divers (now Aqua Lung) in the 60's and early 70's. At that time the pricing structure was jobber, wholesale and retail. Jobber was the lowest price. Say the retail on an regulator was $100, the wholesale was $75 and the jobber was $50. I received the jobber price no matter what my volumn was. If I bought 12 of the same regulator at a time I got an extra 5% off the jobber price. The difference between then and today is all jobbers (dealer today) paid basicly the same price + or- 5% depending on volume.
Also I was not required to sell at any particular price. I could sell at retail if the market would bare it. Most of my competition including mail order were selling at the wholesale price so that is what I sold at. The playing field was fairly level as opposed to today.
I might also add that I didn't survive selling just diving equipment. I sold all forms of sporting goods just as Leisurepro does.
 
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As far as old inventory and returns, are you really so niave to think that doesn't happen in any LDS? If so, I got a bridge to sell you....

The LDS is probably a little more careful in cleaning off water spots from the mask before putting it back on the shelf.

On bottom timers, we don't require them but strongly encourage them. The idea is that OW is also a time to instill good habits and having them being reliant on someone else to know the descent and ascent times is a bad habit. Also, on large groups we might stagger the descent/ascent if we have two DMs, and students will have different ending times as they are brought up individually on CESA drills.

While logging the first or second dive, nearly always will be several students asking like "hey, what did you have for start time?". I gladly tell them and remind them to track their own times. (For those without their timers I'll call out the times. We use surface time for ascent since it takes less than a minute usually for ascent from 20 feet.) For third and fourth dives I'll tell them but emphasis the point a little more, and it's also a good time to talk about dive computers. A dive computer that automatically logs your times sounds mighty nice when the hassles of checking and remembering times are fresh on your mind.
 
This discussion is in the wrong forum. The OP should have posted in rants and raves. There is nothing "basic" about this topic.:wink:
 
If I want a "Cheap Bastard Divers" T-shirt can I get it on line or do I have to go to my LDS?:D
 
I would definitely buy a 'cheap bastard diver' t-shirt if someone made 'em... as long as they weren't to expensive of course :)
 
For the two hundredth post, I just want to add that it takes a lot of chutzpah to pretend to know enough about anyone's finances that you could call them cheap.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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