Cheap Bastard Divers

[sssss]

The "this is a scam" feeling is growing stronger. I may be turning into a Cheap Bastard Diver that will constantly complain about prices.

There's a charge for the course, including the pool. A charge for the certification trip dives - to the FL panhandle, hotel and transportation not included. A charge to rent the reg, BC, a 7mm farmer john wetsuit, weights and tanks. And then all of the stuff we bought. With the total trip cost, I'll have spent a little more than $1000.00. That includes some pricey prescription lenses in my mask.

 

[MeiLing]

The "this is a scam" feeling is growing stronger. I may be turning into a Cheap Bastard Diver that will constantly complain about prices.

There's a charge for the course, including the pool. A charge for the certification trip dives - to the FL panhandle, hotel and transportation not included. A charge to rent the reg, BC, a 7mm farmer john wetsuit, weights and tanks. And then all of the stuff we bought. With the total trip cost, I'll have spent a little more than $1000.00. That includes some pricey prescription lenses in my mask.

A charge for the pool I think we just identified how, where, why and when a so-called "Cheap Bastard Diver" is born!

How much did they charge for the certification class and what exactly did that include? Was that a private class? They charged you for the certification dives thru the same company? Same instructor? Why is it necessary to travel?

 

[sssss]

The class included the pool. I guess they all do, but the class doesn't cover the OW certification dives. I just pulled out my receipts:
OW Class: $300
Checkout trip: $250
Equip Rental for Trip: $100

The class is not private, there were four other students and two instructors. We will have SSI and NAUI certification cards (I don't think there's an extra charge for the cards themselves). The classes are officially through a different company, but they operate out of the shop and use the shop's pool and equipment. There's no additional charge for using the equipment during the pool sessions. The certification dives are done in Florida in the Gulf and in a spring. The same instructor does the cert dives, but there's a boat for the Gulf (I think) and fills from a local shop. That's all included in the trip cost. That's apparently the closest good place to dive from what I'm told. The lake here is shallow and murky, the river has way too much current (and too many giant ships), and the Gulf nearby is muddied by the river. This is New Orleans - I just noticed that doesn't appear by my name.

 

[scubaaaronh]

comparing different sports scuba is much cheaper than my my other sport and i dont buy the cheap equipment. Salmon fishing on the great lakes. Now that is an expensive sport and there are really no ways to be cheap with it. Next year i am going to start chartering again part time to make some gas money.

 

[NancyLynn]

Gee, I didn't have one for my OW classes and neither did anyone else in my class. Yes, everyone does need a depth guage but if you are all going down with the instructor for a pre-ordained amount of time in an OW class, it is just BS nickel and diming the customer to tell them it is required in that class.

When I was trained, there were two elements to proper use of the tables - depth and time at depth. Just as depth is individual, so is time at depth. If cost is an issue, there are a number of cheap watches available(<$20) that are good to 90 ft/30 meters.

I have taught a number of things off and on since I was 12, and began assisting my mother in her swimming classes. Whatever I'm teaching I try to have my students practice everything they will need to do when they are out on their own. In diving (which I have not taught yet) I expect that would include practicing timekeeping.

 

[The Chairman]

I agree... their are a lot of people who magnanimous until you make it about diving. Then they just turn MEAN.

 

[joebubbles]

Just because I like to dive, doesn't mean I like to get soaked!

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Originally Posted by Wayward Son View Post
I hardly equate going on a guided hunt with going diving. A guided hunt is maybe like going on a dive vacation in another country. Guided elk in the USA is likely to cost enough to pay for 2 or more such dive vacations for 2 divers, especially if a place like bonaire or cozumel is on the table. If I took a guided elk hunt, for me that would be the hunt of a lifetime. I've never had a guided hunt of any sort.

diving compared to hunting:

If I want to hunt, I get in the truck & drive to land I have access to. Access = free. Annual license = $32. I pick up one of my rifles (paid for), ammo (loaded by me, tools & components paid for), day pack (paid for), my actual cost is gas for the truck. Maybe 2 gallons of gas or so, so a day's hunting costs me $6.

Diving:

See above. About $150 minimum. That is the closest salt water diving. I can dive for free at morrison spring, except that it's closed now, but when open keep all other costs but drop $80 for the charter plus any tips. So it's still $70 for the day for 1 diver. Or vortex, which IMO rather sucks but now costs $19, so $89 for the day. Assuming 2 tanks, more if I get more dives in.

OMG Cheap not cheap... really who cares? Life is about choices and payback. If you want it bad enough and you can afford it buy it. If you enjoy doing it enough (payback is worth it) get the best stuff you can afford and enjoy it!

I've been sitting here with a really bad chest infection unable to dive for going on 3 weeks and getting a bit concerned about long term effects on my diving! There are so many people out there who are excluded from diving I just consider myself lucky that I can spend the money and dive.

Of course I don't like to get ripped off but I am happy to pay a higher price for good gear from a LDS (we deal with 3 good ones) because I know they will give good service and warranty. It is reasonable that if you don't give them your business you haven't "purchased" their support when it comes to servicing the gear or getting manufacturers to replace unsatisfactory gear. What kind of service do you get from the local car dealership when you bring them a car you didn't buy from them. Remember this is a sport, leisure activity for us but a livelihood for the LDS (but they need to remember that too).

I find it odd to hear people who hang thousands of dollars worth of bling on themselves complain about equipment their lives depend on. Please don't buy me a ring dear I would rather have a new pair of dive boots or (name the gear)! We often give each other gear for gifts so the money isn't such an issue. We don't smoke, drink (much), gamble, or have any other expensive habits. I think putting money into diving is a better option than all of those!

I can't believe how lucky we are here. We have all our gear and there are heaps of good shore dive sites here in Sydney. Our dive costs the air fills and petrol to get there. Only 9 of my last 56 dives have been boat dives. Sydney is such a great location for living and diving.:10:

 

[offthewall1]

And that kind of attitude would not entice me to spend money where you worked. Better would be to tell that if they are going to buy second hand gear, it needs to be serviced before using. After they've spent the money to have that gear serviced, they'd likely understand that they didn't get as much of deal as they thought.

If the gear was bought elsewhere, as a shop owner, I'd work on for a fee.

A good business owner doesn't engage in habits that don't create good will for their business.

As LeisurePro is one of the biggest sellers of gear out there, I would hardly think that what they sell is inferior! That, IMO, is a myth being perpetuated by a bunch of whining, 'sour grapes' dive shops who don't have the business sense to know how to function in today's market.

You apparently have no idea what a dirty little world the Scuba Industry is... and it would take more time than I have to educate you... but please accept just one example of what goes on:

A dealer (Scuba Store) is offered tiered pricing based on the volume they buy from a manufacturer. It may look something like this for a given item:

Platinum $200 Gold $225 Silver $250 Bronze $300

Most mom and pop businesses buy at the bronze level and the very best (highest volume) dealers buy at the Platinum level. This system alone creates an inequity of $100.00 in this given example.

All dealers regardless of size buy into this program as part of an agreement with the manufacturers that they (the manufacturers) will not sell underhandly at lower than the platinum level to wholesalers such as Leisurepro and others. They buy into this because of a system known as MAP (or Minimum Advertised Pricing) which guarantees at least some profit margin for all dealers regardless of size. For the above example.. the MAP price may be $399.00.

Theoritically this means the mom and pop store will make $99 profit and the store that sells high volume is rewarded with a higher profit margin of $199. In the perfect world this works and everyone is happy. The mom and pop don't have to worry about the dealer who buys for $200.00 selling for less than they buy it for. Get it?

The problem is that the manufacturers have all lost their scruples and are selling to the wholesalers at below Platinum levels. In the above example they may sell the item to the wholesalers for $150... who then sell the items for $199 or less than any legitimate dealer can even buy it for.

There is literally no way for any legitimate dealer to compete anymore due to the Scuba Mafia (manufacturers in cohorts with the wholesalers.)

From the largest of legitimate dealers such as Scuba Toys to the smallest mom and pop shop... it is a struggle due to unethical business practices being perpetrated on the industry by greedy manufacturers who overproduce their goods - more and more in low level third world production facilities.

This is not the case with every manufacturer - but it is the case with more than you may expect. This is not a case of sour grapes my friend... this is a case of potential legal action against manufacturers for breach of contract.

If enough local shops banded together, perhaps something could be done... but until then... you should know that some - not all of what these online wholesalers sell is second runs, returns, recondition's, old inventory (sometimes 5 years or more) and counterfeit goods.

I don't care who likes it and who doesn't - these are the facts... and hopefully my example sheds some bright light on the dirty facts. I don't mind being an industry whistleblower... it is indeed time to fix this mess.

 

[vladimir]

models that have been sitting in a warehouse from the likes of Leisurepro for years.

This is funny. So the largest scuba equipment retailer has, in your estimation, a problem with inventory languishing in the warehouse?

The non-cheap divers buy top quality gear from great dealers (be they on-line or local.) They pay a little more for current, first quality goods from people who stand behind what they sell and are there to assist them with their purchases.

I usually ask people who have a problem with their gear where they bought it - and almost inevidably they bought it second hand or from Leisurepro. When they ask me to help them with their problem, I politely explain that I don't touch inferior gear and that they got what they paid for.

Enough of us have bought equipment from Leisurepro to know it's the same equipment that offthewallscuba or any other generic LDS sells, only cheaper. And enough of us have returned equipment to Leisurepro to know they stand behind what they sell. Why trot this tired propaganda out again?

you should know that some - not all of what these online wholesalers sell is second runs, returns, recondition's, old inventory (sometimes 5 years or more) and counterfeit goods.

You should know that we have had this accusation trotted out many times in the past too. Is there any proof of this? Besides an apocrypal story about Scubapro BCs from 10 years ago? Because if you show me the evidence, I'll stop buying from Leisurepro.