New Old Regulators for new diver.

[davehicks]

I have collected 1 nice jacket BCD and 2 BP/W setups. 1 is a HOG and the other is a Dive Right In (?). One set of Mares Quattro for me. 2 Farber steel tanks are at the dive shop now getting hydroed. One 3mm wet suit and one 3mm shorty. Some knives and another type of cutting device. Various other stuff from folks in kind of a grab bag situation. 3 Dive computers and 2 compasses. We seems to have compiled a decent starter pack.

We will buy masks and my wife’s fins from the LDS. Likely other things we didn’t even know we needed.

I have one SP MK18 with a G250 hp and some other type of octo. Snagged another old Oceanic Pre 1995 balanced 1st stage with Alpha regs but they are pretty old. For $20 I thought I’d take them apart and see how these scuba regs work. They seem pretty simple if you can get the parts to refurbish them. The regs need service and inspection if they are to be used. I intend to perform my own service at some point. I’ve built our house, boat, plane, pool, and a bunch of other junk. I will take the steps to learn how though.

Anyway, I’m a pretty good hunter and shopper but don’t know what I’m looking for in regs. (I’m currently at $865 spent). There is a huge range and so many brands that someone new wouldn’t recognize. I appreciate the advice so far. Lots of good info and things to consider.

The G250 is ok, but I would not sink any more money into the rest of those regulators. The Mk18 is pretty obscure. I'm not sure of the history of that model but it's not at all common.

As mentioned, get a pair of Mk25s and some s600 2nd and call it done. Anyone can service them and they will last forever.

 

[Nemrod]

I have read some on the g250. Are there competitors that are regarded as highly?

How about 1st stages?

Thanks.

A G250 is as good or better than anything made today and all service parts are available. The new G260 is the modern iteration.



Some like the 109, it is okay, small exhaust valve, restrictive exhaust tee, some parts hard to get. But they are pretty. Mark 10 (later ones with the SPEC boot preferably), Mark 11, Mark 17. The Mark 20 can be upgraded to Mark 25. Mark 25s have been around awhile. Some show used in good condition. Mark 20 does have a SB against it, compliance is indicated by two slots in the saddle vs three, not complied with. Parts available from SP.

Anything (metal) Conshelf in good shape is cool and easy to service.

 

[Timmyjane]

Take @rsingler's reg class if you don't know someone who can show you in person. On the DIY difficulty scale, I'd rank it similar to rebuilding carbs, but there's some theory and some specific techniques you really should know to troubleshoot and rebuild old regs without damaging them. For example a single scratch in the wrong place from removing an o-ring incorrectly can leave a piston first stage unusable.

He hasn't posted his schedule for 2024. But here's the 2023 thread: Regulator Technician Training - 2023

Awesome. Didn’t know this was available. Thanks for the link!

 

[Timmyjane]

A G250 is as good or better than anything made today and all service parts are available. The new G260 is the modern iteration.



Some like the 109, it is okay, small exhaust valve, restrictive exhaust tee, some parts hard to get. But they are pretty. Mark 10 (later ones with the SPEC boot preferably), Mark 11, Mark 17. The Mark 20 can be upgraded to Mark 25. Mark 25s have been around awhile. Some show used in good condition.

Anything (metal) Conshelf in good shape.

What is a SPEC boot? What is the upgrade to a 25? I mean what function does the 25 provide that the others don’t unless upgraded.

 

[lowwall]

What is a SPEC boot?

Something that keeps in the grease packed into the ambient chamber in an effort to environmentally seal a piston reg.

Piston regulators and the environmental goo!

Piston regulators and the environmental goo! I need the expert technical and real life advice from my online SCUBA buddies regarding this whole environmentally sealed first stage piston regulator stuff? In short, manufactures of first stage piston regulators (prone to freeze up's and junk in the...

scubaboard.com

This is pretty deep in the weeds of regulator design. I think you want to start a higher level. Unfortunately, I don't have any good links at hand. Maybe someone could chime in?

 

[Nemrod]

What is a SPEC boot? What is the upgrade to a 25? I mean what function does the 25 provide that the others don’t unless upgraded.

The SPEC boot is a grease retaining rubber boot that fits into a groove in the body of a later Mark 10 first stage covering the ambient vent holes. The boot prevents seawater from entering the ambient holes and diluting the grease packing.

The Mark 20 is fine as is but if you need to rebuild a Mark 20 at some point it would be upgraded to Mark 25 and there is a kit to include the external IP adjustment.

Scubapro in their newest Mark 25 Evo and many other piston first stages has given up on the grease and boot concept. Atomic still uses it. If installed correctly it is a good system but a PITA to pack and seal.

The Mark 25 (Evo) is current product, a Mark 10 is long gone from the catalogs. The Mark 10, I have several, are great regulators. The Mark 25 Evo is, well, the latest evolution of Scubapro flow through piston first stages.

The Mark 11 and Mark 17 and the swivel turret equipped Mark 19 are diaphragm first stages, not piston like the 5, 10, 20, 25. The Mark 17 and 19 are sealed, the Mark 11 spring chamber is open to seawater thus not fully sealed. IMO of no consequence for most of us.

Edit to add. I have no knowledge of your skill set or capabilities. It is not difficult to service a G250 or a Mark 10 or even a Mark20/25. Getting parts, well, that can be a trick for the newbie. Many of us old(er)timers have squirreled away parts for that rainy day. As much as I like (and prefer) Scubapro for many reasons including long association and familiarity, you might consider a Deep Six set or DGX to get in the water and get going.

 

[happy-diver]

So new bare regs $1000, old that come with the lot $200, so that means that you can take that course five times

And once you're in the water with them they're old again

 

[Timmyjane]

The SPEC boot is a grease retaining rubber boot that fits into a groove in the body of a later Mark 10 first stage covering the ambient vent holes. The boot prevents seawater from entering the ambient holes and diluting the grease packing.

The Mark 20 is fine as is but if you need to rebuild a Mark 20 at some point it would be upgraded to Mark 25 and there is a kit to include the external IP adjustment.

Scubapro in their newest Mark 25 Evo and many other piston first stages has given up on the grease and boot concept. Atomic still uses it. If installed correctly it is a good system but a PITA to pack and seal.

The Mark 25 (Evo) is current product, a Mark 10 is long gone from the catalogs. The Mark 10, I have several, are great regulators. The Mark 25 Evo is, well, the latest evolution of Scubapro flow through piston first stages.

The Mark 11 and Mark 17 and the swivel turret equipped Mark 19 are diaphragm first stages, not piston like the 5, 10, 20, 25. The Mark 17 and 19 are sealed, the Mark 11 spring chamber is open to seawater thus not fully sealed. IMO of no cnsequence for most of us.

Edi to add. I have no knowledge of your skill set or capabilities. It is not difficult to service a G250 or a Mark 10 or even a Mark20/25. Getting parts, well, that can be a trick for the newbie. Many of us old(er)timers have squirreled away parts for that rainy day. As much as I like (and prefer) Scubapro for many reasons including long association and familiarity, you might consider a Deep Six set or DGX to get in the water and get going.

Thank you for the thorough reply. I am learning a lot. I would love to buy a new setup to get going. It may come to that. The issue is that I have to buy 2. One for me and one for the Mrs. It adds up very quickly.

 

[formernuke]

The best advice I can give a new diver is to go very slow at getting your own gear. Upgrading scuba gear should not be your plan, but rather a symptom of the addiction we all suffer from. Scuba gear can last most of your diving career if properly maintained. So, rent a bit, this allows you to know what you want. What type of BCD, jacket or BP/W, do you understand the difference? Where are you taking your diving career, professional, master enthusiast, technical or cave? What do you have now? You should answer all of these before us on the internet can provide our recommendations.

^^^^^ this, God so much this.

Gear is expensive and depending on how far this addiction takes you save where you can. For a reference on a deco dive I'm getting in the water with about 20k worth of gear, that doesn't count the stuff I've replaced and the training etc.

 

[thbcthomas]

@Timmyjane get on @buddhasummer wait list for some g250s and message @Wiznutaggie about the 2 Scubapro mk10s he has available.