certification limits and how they are considered now days....

[formernuke]

The analogy, if you want one, is to tell a new driver they can only drive 25mph, until they get their next cert.

Not really again we are talking about common pratice, not actually rules. It makes a difference. Look at all the agency's specialities. And there OW courses. Example SDI OW says conduct dives similar to there OW class dives.

SDI deep states allows you to go beyond 60 and up to 130.

Wrsdt says OW is qualified to 130 and since they set the actual standards a OW card is to 130 but the common pratice is to require more advanced certs beyond 60.

I only ever praticed criminal law and even I could win a suit against a operator letting/ taking divers with just OW beyond 60 based on common pratice. Hence why a lot of US operators will want to see such certs.

 

[Bob DBF]

Wrsdt says OW is qualified to 130 and since they set the actual standards a OW card is to 130 but the common pratice is to require more advanced certs beyond 60.

There are some operators that require certain cards, but the only common practice is a business selling classes, by saying you need them. oh, by the way its WRSTC.

 

[formernuke]

There are some operators that require certain cards, but the only common practice is a business selling classes, by saying you need them. oh, by the way its WRSTC.

I'm a few hours post op, typing errors will occur.

Be it is businesses selling classes (which I don't at disagree with) it has been established as a common safe pratice in the US. As such increases liability issues for operators.

 

[Germie]

And what if training limits change, the old certs cannot change. A cmas DM/3* has a 60m on air cert. That is still no technical diving. But now new cmas 3* are only rated to 40m or so. On my 'brevet international' is no depth stated, but I did it under the PO2 of 1.6 limit on air, so that means my 3* is over 60m rated.
This directly states a problem you sometimes have. Agencies change rules, but certs are already given with other rules. You cannot revoke limits from older certs. The same happened with advanced nitrox, this was a 42m cert, but is now a 40m cert due to iso limits or so, I don't know exactly. But my cert is still a 42m, even if there is no limit written on it. I did it in the 42m time. (Ok, I am full trimix certified, so don't have any limits anymore, you can be trained till 100m depth, but then go deeper if you want,but if you do, do it safe please).

In my country there are no laws about diving, so everybody can say 'I am instructor' and can start an agency. They are only not in iso/nen or (w)rstc or euf. So you can get problems when you go with this cert to a divingcenter.

For technical diving, there is no iso or whatever, that means, acceptance is based on goodwill. Normally you won't have any issues if you stick with the big tech agencies.

I think a lot of divecenters limit too much, only because they are afraid of responsibility. But most times when they state this is a law, there is no law, it are only lies. I think we must accept more independent diving and solodiving. The boat is only a taxi to the divesite and the guide is optional. We learn to dive without guides in Europe. We go diving on our own most times. Solo or with friends. Boats are only taxis to a divesite. If you are a divecenter owner and you think even divers with over 1000 dives on 200 different divesites all over the world cannot dive without supervision, please be honest, do you trust your dm with only 62 dives more? Even the open water diver is already an autonomous diver. If not, was the instruction not good enough?

Because there are no laws, as instructor you can only advice people to stay within training limits. But if they don't do, you cannot do anything at all. Of course you can refuse to teach a diver, but to judge about people doing things outside a certification limit, that is not possible, and is officially talking behind backs if you do. There is no police who can give fines. Only advice is possible.

And remember, diving is the only sport where you can only learn by doing courses, there is no autodidactical way accepted. But would learning to dive safe be possible the autodidactical way for some people (with some friends for example)?

 

[Blackcrusader]

And what if training limits change, the old certs cannot change.

Those of us with older certs are often told to "upgrade" and train to "new standards"

TDI ANDP is where I will stop training at. Sometime this year.

 

[Angelo Farina]

My CMAS 3* Instructor certification explicitly fix the depth limit to 50m, with air, and with deco. This is the max depth where I am allowed to bring my students.
Even if they now can get a 3* CMAS diver certification which enables them to dive just to 40m, my Instructor certification allows me to bring them deeper, if I want, during training.
This exploits the point; training limits and "autonomous" diving limits do not necessarily coincide, and not necessarily the training limit is shallower than the operation diving limit after being certified. It depends on the organization/agency and on the qualification of the instructor who is training you.
CMAS specifies clearly the operational autonomous diving limits for certified divers, other agencies only specify the limits for training, and the certified divers are allowed to dive deeper after certification.
I prefer the CMAS approach, where under instructor's guidance and control, you can test the reactions of a student to deep diving, and then you give him/her a certification which allows to a shallower autonomous depth, which is clearly declared in their certification.
Of course there is no police forbidding to dive deeper, but one has to take his own risks for doing so, included the insurance refusing to pay.

 

[Wibble]

Those of us with older certs are often told to "upgrade" and train to "new standards"

Hilarious! Almost an arrogance.

Obviously if you've not dived for 20 years, there's a point in doing a 'review'. But "current standards"...

 

[Blackcrusader]

Hilarious! Almost an arrogance.

What is really funny is asking a Padi instructor how they intend to upgrade my deco training?

 

[Germie]

What is really funny is asking a Padi instructor how they intend to upgrade my deco training?

More funny was that when I was looking to become a scuba instructor that an agency wanted me to have night diver certificate as requirement. We cannot get a nightdiver cert as card from cmas here, as it is within the 2* course. But I was at that time already a full cave diver. I don't know, but it is darker than dark in caves . Then they said: pay 100 euro, and you get the card from us. I decided to go to another agency.

 

[boulderjohn]

What is really funny is asking a Padi instructor how they intend to upgrade my deco training?

Why is that really funny?

Get the PADI chart showing where divers with some specific training can transfer that training over to PADI so they can upgrade to a higher level. Many of the people I certified as trimix divers came with certifications from other agencies.