certification limits and how they are considered now days....

[Angelo Farina]

I understand your point. I would counter with this: If one is teaching deco procedures for divers to do actual deco dives, it no longer falls into the realm of recreational. Recreational diving is diving when a direct ascent to the surface can be made at any time. The minute you introduce a ceiling, you have fallen out of that definition, regardless of what any agency would state to the contrary.

Just my two bar.

Your definition of recreational diving is typical of some US based "for profit" agencies.
CMAS and other european no-profit organizations (such as BSAC) have a different boundary for recreational divers.
Here a light deco on air at max depth of 40m is considered fully recreational.
On the other hand, CMAS and BSAC issue certifications with specified max depth limit to be not exceeded for any diving done after certification.
These cannot be exceeded for autonomous diving. They can be exceeded only when being trained for a higher grade certification, under the supervision of a qualified instructor.

 

[Wookie]

Your definition of recreational diving is typical of some US based "for profit" agencies.
CMAS and other european no-profit organizations (such as BSAC) have a different boundary for recreational divers.
Here a light deco on air at max depth of 40m is considered fully recreational.
On the other hand, CMAS and BSAC issue certifications with specified max depth limit to be not exceeded for any diving done after certification.
These cannot be exceeded for autonomous diving. They can be exceeded only when being trained for a higher grade certification, under the supervision of a qualified instructor.

I'll be damned if I ever let a certification agency tell me I have limits to my diving.

 

[drrich2]

CMAS and other european no-profit organizations (such as BSAC) have a different boundary for recreational divers.
Here a light deco on air at max depth of 40m is considered fully recreational.

Interesting. Where do recreational divers go and dive where they get to do this light deco.? In other words, what dive boat operators and such permit this? Is it a common thing for recreational divers to do on trips?

Richard.

 

[Germie]

Padi has a self certifying option for a lot of specialties. You must sign that you have done for example 20 solodives. Then pay a fee and you are self reliant instructor. This is what an instructor told me.

I know that some agencies say you need to have the specialty yourself, then pay a fee and you are instructor.

The teklite programm from iantd was also recreational diving.

 

[Wibble]

Interesting. Where do recreational divers go and dive where they get to do this light deco.? In other words, what dive boat operators and such permit this? Is it a common thing for recreational divers to do on trips?

Pretty much all dive boat operators in the UK allow this. Nothing to do with them, only that the diver comes back at the max dive time.

We all know that dives at the deeper end of NDLs are much shorter, for example 40m/132ft is 9 mins max on the PADI RDP table. Why not spend, say, 15 mins on the bottom and do 10 mins deco? (N.B. don't have the BSAC88 tables to hand)

 

[JMarc]

Interesting. Where do recreational divers go and dive where they get to do this light deco.? In other words, what dive boat operators and such permit this? Is it a common thing for recreational divers to do on trips?

Richard.

Standard directives from a boat operator here in the South of France is max depth, max time and min remaining pressure along with a site description. Then you plan your dive and hopefully dive your plan with your buddy. Deco is assumed to be allowed excepted if the interdiction is explicitly mentioned. Some dive sites have little to no interest if you are staying in the NDL.

I do remember having agreed with my buddy we didn't want a dive profile with deco due to some circumstances such as having done a deco dive in the morning and wanting a shallower no-deco for the afternoon, but I don't remember that decision being done for us.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Interesting. Where do recreational divers go and dive where they get to do this light deco.? In other words, what dive boat operators and such permit this? Is it a common thing for recreational divers to do on trips?

Richard.

Here in the med deco diving is nornal. When I worked as instructor at Club Vacanze (a leading tour operator in past century) in resorts in Sicily and Sardinia we were doing deco dives every day with our customers.
We had additional air tanks hanging under the large inflatable boat.
When deco dives are planned and executed with proper procedures they are actually safer than dives planned "on the edge of NDL", which can suddenly switch to unplanned deco dives at every minor inconvenience causing the group to stay at bottom for some minutes more.
In our reserts, the dives were either very shallow and far to NDL, if the customers were a group of beginners, or slightly deco dives, if expert.
As said, it was considered unsafe to "ride the NDL"...
Apart when in resorts, here in the med a lot of divers do not use dive masters or guides, we simply dive on ourself.
Often using our small inflatables, or renting them.
Sometines renting a larger boat, who does not care of what we do underwater.
They just count that all are back on boat...
Then there are a lot of diving clubs, who organize group dives or full holidays.
The american-style "dive shops" always struggled here, and Covid did cause the closure of many of them.
The diving industry is shrinking here, young people are not interested. Most divers are aged, we were trained during the past century, we still use vintage equipment and we continue diving as we were trained, with some deco in air, which we consider safer than a "no deco" dive.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Interesting. Where do recreational divers go and dive where they get to do this light deco.? In other words, what dive boat operators and such permit this? Is it a common thing for recreational divers to do on trips?
Richard.

Some places in Asia depending on the operator. It is not common but it does happen.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I'll be damned if I ever let a certification agency tell me I have limits to my diving.

I think there has to be that dive shops adhere to. I'm certified for normoxic OC diving, but not CC. No sensible shop would give me OC hypoxic trimix fills for normoxic trimix fills for my rebreather (sure I could take the larger bottles and use a whip to transfer to my small bottles, but let's not go there).

I think we will have a continued evolution by agencies moving the goal posts to increase their revenue. And as a result, the arguments on what constitute technical diving will continue.

 

[Wookie]

I think there has to be that dive shops adhere to. I'm certified for normoxic OC diving, but not CC. No sensible shop would give me OC hypoxic trimix fills for normoxic trimix fills for my rebreather (sure I could take the larger bottles and use a whip to transfer to my small bottles, but let's not go there).

I think we will have a continued evolution by agencies moving the goal posts to increase their revenue. And as a result, the arguments on what constitute technical diving will continue.

Well, yes, but I have a boat and a compressor.