cenotes experience/certification?

[Pez de Diablo]

One thing which I don't think was mentioned yet - don't be surprised if a good guide takes you on an initial dive to assess your abilities. That's maybe something to consider if you are thinking of diving multiple locations (guides).

Or we talk with the DM's at the shop and get a report of the divers skill level and then plan accordingly.

 

[Pez de Diablo]

I've seen more than one diver come out so shaken by their experience that they would not do it again.

I've seen diver's with buoyancy skills so... hmm... new?.. that they had to be towed thru the "cavern".

I've seen a group led thru a cavern by a guide who had never been there himself.

I've seen a diver lost and unaccounted for by the instructor.

... and I've seen guided ceynote cavern dives that for all purposes were cave dives in reality.

Stephen,

When you make statements like you have, it may be in your own interest to mention that they are your own personal subjective opinions, rather than present your information as proven fact. This may stop people from jumping on you.

Now, as much as I would like to tell you that you are full of it... I can't, at least not on all points.

I have had divers that really want to try a cavern dive and are totally primed for the experience and after trying it, they thumb the dive because they feel uncomfortable. Just like wreck dives or night dives or drift dives, cavern dives may not be for everyone. We exit the cavern, surface discuss and I congratulate them for making the right decision to end the dive. We walk back to the truck and they sometimes say, "That is not for me, I'll never do that again."

Now Stephen, I think this happens more so than the way you depict it.

Divers towed through the cavern. Yes, I have seen it and I have also had to be on the end of a diver pulling them back to the entrance after 5 min into the dive even after checking out their skills and thinking that they could do it. It's too bad that they started out alright, but the task loading and the foreign environment is sometimes too much for even an experienced diver.

As for your other comments. I would have to say they are unfounded speculation.

Merry Christmas,

Dennis

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Stephen,
When you make statements like you have, it may be in your own interest to mention that they are your own personal subjective opinions, rather than present your information as proven fact. This may stop people from jumping on you.

Dennis,

Each thing that I posted I personally observed. Some people might not like what I have seen... but it doesn't change the FACT that they happened.

I do have some opinions on this issue but I have yet to offer them. You might be surprised at what they are. Likewise, I have nothing to gain by describing some of these observations. In fact, one might accuse me of having more to gain by promoting these dives, given that our shop offers these experiences... but they would be wrong about that, as well.

As for your other comments. I would have to say they are unfounded speculation.

I have not offered any speculation, either. I simply listed some things that I have seen.

I don't see what the uproar is about. I have not passed judgment on any activity or anyone involved in this type of diving.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Dennis,

I hope you don't take my resevations concerning guiding untrained divers in caverns as an attack on your own practices or integrity. I do have concerns about the practice in general just as I do about those guided dives through devils throat, wrecks or other overhead environments and the attitude of many recreational divers as it relates but I'm just being honest there.

I hope things are going well for you down there. You must be doing something right because you're not up here in the snow and ice like I am. LOL

Merry Christmas and good diving.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Dennis,

I hope you don't take my resevations concerning guiding untrained divers in caverns as an attack on your own practices or integrity.

Same here, Dennis. I'm sure that most guides are very conscientious about their work and want those in their charge to have a good time.

 

[KidK9]

Dennis is a great guy that provides exceptional service and safety. He truly cares about his clients and I'm sure he knows that. In fact, I would believe everyone that has dove with him knows that. I'm sure he also knows there are "hacks" down there, and he isnt one of them. Happy Holidays you guys. Dennis, I missed ya this year, I went to Turks and Caicos this year and just got back yesterday.

 

[Pez de Diablo]

Dennis,

I hope you don't take my resevations concerning guiding untrained divers in caverns as an attack on your own practices or integrity. I do have concerns about the practice in general just as I do about those guided dives through devils throat, wrecks or other overhead environments and the attitude of many recreational divers as it relates but I'm just being honest there.

I hope things are going well for you down there. You must be doing something right because you're not up here in the snow and ice like I am. LOL

Merry Christmas and good diving.

Mike and Stephen,

I don't take your stances as an attack at all. It's open debate. I also hope the feeling is mutual.

Mike,

I am glad to see someone with your reputation and experience questioning practises. Guided cavern dives aren't for everyone and the more information they have before making a choice as to whether they do the dive or not and who they use to guide them, the better.

Stephen,

I just cannot put any validity on your statements beyond what I have commented on already. They are your personal observations from your point of view. I guess one comment I hear a lot is "wow, that was a cave dive, we must have been deep within the system." I smile and then explain how it was still a cavern dive and if they turned around or looked up at this point or at that point of the dive, they would have seen open air or another entrance or..... Perception varies from person to person.

I am training a new guide and after one of our training dives during our debrief, his comment to me was "I guess I need to open up my windshield to understand everything around me."

Another example is the bat cave tour at Dos Ojos. Because it is a darker dive and most people believe that penetration has to be much further than the 200' maximum penetration that has been set for a guided cavern dive (see the other posts for all the limits that must be followed) but in reality the bat cave tour is for the most part in open water. The diver did the dive, but with just one or two dives in the Bat cave, their limited experience tells them that they were beyond the cavern zone and into the cave.

 

[lhpdiver]

Dennis,

I hope you don't take my resevations concerning guiding untrained divers in caverns as an attack on your own practices or integrity. I do have concerns about the practice in general just as I do about those guided dives through devils throat, wrecks or other overhead environments and the attitude of many recreational divers as it relates but I'm just being honest there.

I hope things are going well for you down there. You must be doing something right because you're not up here in the snow and ice like I am. LOL

Merry Christmas and good diving.

Hmm - just a friendly question - what's the difference then if Dennis were to issue a diver their PADI Cavern specialty at the end of their week's vacation ? Either way they start out the week untrained.

Merry Christmas.

 

[Pez de Diablo]

Hmm - just a friendly question - what's the difference then if Dennis were to issue a diver their PADI Cavern specialty at the end of their week's vacation ? Either way they start out the week untrained.

Merry Christmas.

I think this question is for Mike, but I will throw out a comment as well. Not trying to cut you of Mike

It is in the progression of the dives and the order the information and skills are passed on to the divers as well as the detail and depth of the information passed on to the students. I hope this helps.

Dennis

 

[Pez de Diablo]

Dennis is a great guy that provides exceptional service and safety. He truly cares about his clients and I'm sure he knows that. In fact, I would believe everyone that has dove with him knows that. I'm sure he also knows there are "hacks" down there, and he isnt one of them. Happy Holidays you guys. Dennis, I missed ya this year, I went to Turks and Caicos this year and just got back yesterday.

You just got back yesterday, that's a nice early Christmas present! I hope you had a great time.

Dennis