cenotes experience/certification?

[Giggi]

Thanks for all the replies. Hubby is bored with Cozumel diving, although he loved the C-53, which we hear is now closed since Wilma, so I was trying to find something that might hold his interest. Being slightly claustrophobic, I don't think I would handle caves/caverns/cenotes well (It took everything I had to stay calm in the C-53 when someone else was holding the flashlight), but I'm sure he would be fine.

 

[boydski]

Thanks for all the replies. Hubby is bored with Cozumel diving, although he loved the C-53, which we hear is now closed since Wilma, so I was trying to find something that might hold his interest. Being slightly claustrophobic, I don't think I would handle caves/caverns/cenotes well (It took everything I had to stay calm in the C-53 when someone else was holding the flashlight), but I'm sure he would be fine.

Hi Giggi,

I wouldn't want to talk you into trying a cenote dive if you're not ready, but I did notice you said "slightly" claustrophobic. I wanted to pass on that my wife is claustrophobic and absolutely refused to go inside the C-53, or any other shipwreck for that matter. However, she did try the cenotes and loves the Caverns down in Mexico. Many of them have white walls which make they seem very bright, and the more popular cavern tours are actually pretty spacious.

Here is a photo of her in Gran Cenote, which is one of the whitest Caverns in the area.

 

[TSandM]

Is it too late to put a trip to Mexico on my Christmas list?

 

[dlndavid]

Thanks Dennis for your rational inputs. I guess I should have made it clear about diving in uw caves or caverens, you have to be comfortable in caves first maybe. Around here, as kids we used to play ditch in a cave system that was supposed to be over 500 miles. So I guess I had the "enclosed" feeling well under control. I don't agree with the interjection of "trust me" dives, when your guide explains all very well, how the dive will go, what to do if in trouble, and what you will encounter along the way. Some people think that diving is the hardest thing in the world to come along, it is not, you just have to use good judgement, and not all of that is, or will be learned just through diving. There are plenty of ways to gain smarts other than diving, diver don't have a corner on this.
btw; do you know Leif?

 

[MikeFerrara]

I don't agree with the interjection of "trust me" dives, when your guide explains all very well, how the dive will go, what to do if in trouble, and what you will encounter along the way. Some people think that diving is the hardest thing in the world to come along, it is not, you just have to use good judgement, and not all of that is, or will be learned just through diving. There are plenty of ways to gain smarts other than diving, diver don't have a corner on this.
btw; do you know Leif?

Since I think I'm the only one here who mentioned "trust-me" dives, maybe I'll respond to this. It sounds like Dennis and others are doing their best to provide a "safe" tour. Diving is NOT hard and niether is cave diving. However, you might want to do a little research. Cave diving training has evolved around acident analysis. Early on, the number one killer of divers in caves was identified as being diving in caves without training. It sounds like some of these guides are essentially doing some trianing with folks before taking them in but there is a reason that line drills are done on land and in OW even before a cavern student ever enters a cavern. Those skills aren't hard but it's probably best not to be in a cave the first time you have to follow a line by feel. I'll take Dennis' word that they are careful about site selection and that helps but should you lose vis (maybe just a lost mask) you're liable to find yourself totally dependant on the guide with none of the skills you need to deal with things yourself. Even if you've been told what to do, your ability to do it in a cave is totally untested and the very line that you depend on for direction can become your biggest problem.

Read back at what Dennis wrote about when a diver signals thirds on and the dive continues because your past the halfway point and the shortest way out is onward even though the diver may not realize it. That is a clasic form of a trust-me dive and exactly the type of example a cave instructor is likely going to use when discussing trust-me dives. When a diver does a dive like as a non trust-me dive he goes the first direction, marks the line at his "thirds", turns and exits the way he came. On a second dive, he goes the other direction. If the diver passes their own marker before hitting "thirds" he knows he has the gas to continue. If thirds are hit before reaching the marker the diver turns and exits the way he came. I believe the Dennis is trustworthy but in the example he gave you are most certainly trusting him.

Of the hundreds of untrained divers who have died in caves many, if not most, were within spitting distance of the exit but didn't know it. Unfortunately I haven't seen the Mexican caves but in many caverns all it takes is a quick turn and a kick or two (if that) to be out of the lighted zone (total darkness), off the line and hopelessly lost if you don't have the equipment and skills to find your way back. I'm sure that Dennis is selecting sites where this is unlikely and that he can probably prevent it from happening to you and that he can find you in time if it does. Make no mistake though, you are trusting him to make that selection and totally dependant on him to be on top of things to prevent it or to come and find you if it does somehow happen.

Now, I'm not telling you not to do it and I'm not even telling you that it isn't a resonably safe activity. That's something that we all decide for ourselves. I am telling you that there are about 100 different ways to illustrate that it is, in fact, a trust-me dive, whether you agree or not.

 

[mart1]

Being slightly claustrophobic, I don't think I would handle caves/caverns/cenotes well (It took everything I had to stay calm in the C-53 when someone else was holding the flashlight), but I'm sure he would be fine.

My wife is slightly claustrofobic and would never enter a wreck.
We started cavern diving 10 years ago, cave diving the next year, last christmas we did a 2km (600ft) penetration dive at Grand Cenote. Never had any problems, just took it slow: no tight stuff for the first 5 years for instance.
If you want to try it, contact Dennis. He can be found under the name "Pez de Diablo" on the deco stop, don't know if he is on this forum. I hear very good stories about him.

mart

 

[mart1]

I just saw Pez is on this forum, so you can contact him here. Give him my regards.
By the way, a cavern tour is not a "trust me" dive in the cave diving sense. It is a guided dive, in very controlled circumstances, with an experienced cave diver and dive professional. If a certified guide could not take you on a safe dive, how the hell would a cave instructor like me ever get the first dive of the cavern and cave diving courses done? We have to take you on your first dive sometime, don't we?

ciao, mart

 

[MikeFerrara]

I just saw Pez is on this forum, so you can contact him here. Give him my regards.
By the way, a cavern tour is not a "trust me" dive in the cave diving sense. It is a guided dive, in very controlled circumstances, with an experienced cave diver and dive professional.

With some one else controlling and planning the circumstances right? Depending on the experience of the experienced cave diver guide right?

If a certified guide could not take you on a safe dive, how the hell would a cave instructor like me ever get the first dive of the cavern and cave diving courses done? We have to take you on your first dive sometime, don't we?

ciao, mart

I think that's easy enough to answer. First of all many training dives to border on what I'd consider a trust me dive. However, the skills that a student might need to get themselves back alone are practiced on land and in OW before ever going in a cave or cavern are they not? The student has already demonstrated that they can do it, though they haven't yet applied it in a cave environment. I don't know how you teach cave diving, or how your own cave training went but during mine, I always planned and executed the dive with the team I was diving with. During training this was all under the supervision of the instructor of course but we did the planning and diving. The instructor was there as a backup but never guided the dive.

Yes, we instructors take divers on their first dive too, of course. I don't know how you teach but before taking a student into open water I first teach them all the individual skills and have them practice applying them in confined water. They can already physically dive when we go to open water and they have demonstrated that. While they don't yet have experience in an open water environment they have demonstrated that they can do everything that would be required of them to get back without my help if need be.

What makes the cavern dives trust me dives for non cavern divers is that they are not learning and demonstating the ability to perform the skills required of a cavern diver before diving in a cavern but instead are relying on the expertise of some one else.

Lets talk about something else. When I was a cavern instructor standards did not permit me to take a student into a cavern prior to teaching those line drills and other skills on land and in OW. I wonder why? Do training standards still read that way? As I recall, the proposed development of standards for guided cavern/cave dives came about as a result of certain professionals (namely in Mexico) insistance on conducting the dives. The dives came first and the standards to try to prevent it from being a free for all came later as I recall.

 

[dlndavid]

Thanks Mike for your response, and come to think of it, most of diving could be considered "trust me" dives, as we were not born with the ability to dive with our own bodies as we do. Man made inventions has made it possible and we are trusting in those that engineered the equipment we use. About the cenote dive I did, it was one of the easiest, most fantastic dives I have ever done. It logged on my computer as a 90 minutes dive, as we never left the water; we changed to second tank in the water and continued another very well known rout through the caves. I was very impressed also by our guide’s attention to details in the dive briefing even down to the kick count method he was going to use and that we should use also. I am a gear nut, so it was great to go on a dive with all three of my lights (matching set of blue Ikelites of various sizes). It was also my last dives of a week in the area, so a perfect way to get a good fresh water thorough rinse. Cenote diving may not be for everybody, but I knew it was for me and I can't wait to do more down the Yucatan way. Oh and our guide Leif, is a real hoot to boot.
David

 

[lhpdiver]

What kind of diving experience or certification is required before the dive ops will take you diving the cenotes?

One thing which I don't think was mentioned yet - don't be surprised if a good guide takes you on an initial dive to assess your abilities. That's maybe something to consider if you are thinking of diving multiple locations (guides).