cenotes experience/certification?

[Charlie99]

Cenote cavern dives are not for everyone. ....If you don't have near perfect bouyancy skills, or have any issues with being in closed in or dark spaces, don't even consider one of these dives regardless of your cert level or how good the guide is.

Technically, the cavern sections of a cenote cave system will always have natural light visable and be within a specific distance to an exit point (sorry, don't recall the exact distance off hand).

I agree wholeheartedly with your recommendations on bouyancy control skill and being comfortable in closed, dark spaces. The exit points and access to free air will not be obvious in many cenotes because they are inside dark caves.

Here's an older thread on OW/AOW divers in Cenotes: Cenotes - Good or Bad Idea thread

 

[MikeFerrara]

There are a few caverns in N. Florida that are considered "safe" for OW divers. They are fairly safe, but I have heard of deaths occurring in some of these, so probably not the best idea. But if you really think about it, any tube you swim through in the Caribbean or off of Hawaii is also an overhead, but it's done all the time. I think it gives OW divers a false sense of security in overhead environments. Overhead environments can be extremely dangerous, even the easy "resort" ones.

There are caverns in Florida that are advertised as being "open water safe" by the owners of the facility. That's not the same as being "considered safe for open water divers" Everytime an open water diver dies in there the question comes up. The last one I remember ( and you can do some looking around yourself) was a girl at Ginnie who got her mask flooded or something and ended up dumping or losing her weights and getting plastered to the ceiling, as I recall.

Granted divers get away with it. You might be able to do a full blown cave dive, or a deep staged decompression dive without training and get away with it. You might even get a way with it lots of times. I don't know that it's a good idea though and personally I don't care to be anywhere in the area while that sort of foolishness is going on.

A cavern class is a short little diddy that you can knock off in a couple of days if your any good in the water so why not invest at least that much preperation inf your interested in diving caverns? A cavern class is one of those classes that will probably do more to improve your diving and overall skill in the water than any other single class you could ever take. The secrets of buoyancy control, good finning technique and other topics that are promised but rarely taught to recreational divers are finally revealed.

Site owners in Florida and guides in Mexico are willing to take, or allow, OW divers into overheads because they can and they make money by doing it. If only a few get killed here and there it isn't any skin off any ones nose...except for the ones who get killed and their family and friends of course....a small price to pay for a good steady income.

 

[boydski]

A cavern class is a short little diddy that you can knock off in a couple of days if your any good in the water so why not invest at least that much preperation inf your interested in diving caverns? A cavern class is one of those classes that will probably do more to improve your diving and overall skill in the water than any other single class you could ever take. The secrets of buoyancy control, good finning technique and other topics that are promised but rarely taught to recreational divers are finally revealed.

Mike is right (as usual ). I talked a group of recreational divers into going down to Mexico with me a few years ago and taking a Cavern Class. This involved lots of promises of "White Sand Beaches, Warm Water, Cold Margaritas, etc", and that the class was only two days. The plan was to spend 2 days in the cenotes and then 7 days diving in the ocean.

They finished their Cavern Class and learned a lot, but wanted to go dive in the Ocean, so we did the following day in the Ocean, and they insisted they wanted to go back to the Caverns. They spent the rest of the week in the Caverns and loved every minute of this.

Why am I telling you this? That class really helped change them from "good" divers to "excellent" divers. They are a pleasure to dive with now, with outstanding buoyancy control and fin technique, great communications, dive planning and gas management. I think they would all agree that it was the most beneficial class that they had ever taken. They haven't been back into a cavern in two years, but the things they learned in class shows in their diving every day.

For more information, feel free to read my Cavern Training Trip Report . If you do get the chance, I highly recommend the training!

 

[mart1]

What I think about cavern dives in Mexico for OW divers?
Well, cavern dives in Mexico (Grand Cenote, Dos Ojos, Taj Mahal, Temple Of Doom, etc) are awesome. And I would like to see as many divers as possible experience this.
Is it safe? Yes, for any certified diver that feels OK it is safe to enter the cavern zone of the abovementioned caves with a certified guide. In Yucatan a certified guide is a (minimum) Divemaster, Full Cave certified, with cavern guide training. He will take you on a dive within the cavern zone of the cave. Cavern is defined as max 60 meters from air, within the light zone.
I will accept divers in a cavern course with minimum 50 dives, intro to cave course 150dives, full cave 250. These divers enter the course, no promise of certification or even continuation of the course if I don't think they have the skills level and mind set needed.

ciao, mart

 

[limeyx]

What kind of diving experience or certification is required before the dive ops will take you diving the cenotes?

If it's overhead diving (i.e. you cannot safely ascend directly to the surface), then I would propose that some kind of overhead training would be the minimum required...

But really it's not what the "dive ops" require, but what YOU feel is safe for YOU.
A dive op saying Open water training is fine does not make it any safer.

 

[limeyx]

The cenotes I went through were very much overhead enviroment, but openings were not far apart, and the DM was a certified cave diver.

Ah, so the DM is fine, but the people he is guiding are hosed?
Perhaps there's a reason DM has overhead training ...

 

[MikeFerrara]

What I think about cavern dives in Mexico for OW divers?
Well, cavern dives in Mexico (Grand Cenote, Dos Ojos, Taj Mahal, Temple Of Doom, etc) are awesome. And I would like to see as many divers as possible experience this.
Is it safe? Yes, for any certified diver that feels OK it is safe to enter the cavern zone of the abovementioned caves with a certified guide. In Yucatan a certified guide is a (minimum) Divemaster, Full Cave certified, with cavern guide training. He will take you on a dive within the cavern zone of the cave. Cavern is defined as max 60 meters from air, within the light zone.
I will accept divers in a cavern course with minimum 50 dives, intro to cave course 150dives, full cave 250. These divers enter the course, no promise of certification or even continuation of the course if I don't think they have the skills level and mind set needed.

ciao, mart

Where does one get "cavern guide training"?

How does being with a certified guide make it safe?

It sounds like the ultimate "trust-me dive". Don't all cave courses warn about trust-me dives? Aside from being a trust-me dive it sounds like a monster oxymoron...safe while knowing nothing, having never demonstrated the skills that every one has agreed should be required for cavern diving as long as you're doing a trust-me dive (which you shouldn't do unless you really know what you're doing) with some one who knows how.

I call bull shiit.

 

[Captain CaveMan]

The cenotes I went through were very much overhead enviroment, but openings were not far apart, and the DM was a certified cave diver.

same here. we did cenota diving too and it was all over head. i would have to say it was more cave than cenota. we did chac-mool. there was little to none natural light. I cant wait to do it in jan again. this time i will have my own gear with.

 

[spyder]

Mike,

I tried sending a pm but your box is full, what shop do you teach out of?

 

[Dive-aholic]

There are caverns in Florida that are advertised as being "open water safe" by the owners of the facility. That's not the same as being "considered safe for open water divers" Everytime an open water diver dies in there the question comes up. The last one I remember ( and you can do some looking around yourself) was a girl at Ginnie who got her mask flooded or something and ended up dumping or losing her weights and getting plastered to the ceiling, as I recall.

Granted divers get away with it. You might be able to do a full blown cave dive, or a deep staged decompression dive without training and get away with it. You might even get a way with it lots of times. I don't know that it's a good idea though and personally I don't care to be anywhere in the area while that sort of foolishness is going on.

A cavern class is a short little diddy that you can knock off in a couple of days if your any good in the water so why not invest at least that much preperation inf your interested in diving caverns? A cavern class is one of those classes that will probably do more to improve your diving and overall skill in the water than any other single class you could ever take. The secrets of buoyancy control, good finning technique and other topics that are promised but rarely taught to recreational divers are finally revealed.

Site owners in Florida and guides in Mexico are willing to take, or allow, OW divers into overheads because they can and they make money by doing it. If only a few get killed here and there it isn't any skin off any ones nose...except for the ones who get killed and their family and friends of course....a small price to pay for a good steady income.

It'd be interesting to see what the companies that carry the liability insurance for those cavern sites think...

I may be wrong, but I heard that Ginnie is okay with PADI. Not sure in what sense. But isn't it also the only place, in the US at least, where a cavern dive is allowed to be done at night? (I heard it was also okay with PADI.) Not sure how realiable this information is though. I do know I couldn't see the opening from very far inside last time I was in there at night, even with the lights around the basin. That could get pretty dangerous if you don't know the cavern and are diving a single AL80.