The cenotes are an intriguing mystical place. They deserve the utmost respect.
Cenote Diving and Safety
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Mike
Contributor
I believe that is what I said.
DeniseFox
New
I just returned from a Coz/Playa/Cancun trip. I have dove several times with my cavern DM and will dive with no one else. He has one of the best reputations in the area. He is a rescue cave diver and unfortunately, was the one who was called to search Chac Mool when the 3 divers went missing. He is also the diver that found them. Here is what happened:
The couple was in their early 30's with decent dive experience (about 60+/- dives) on their honeymoon. He was an engineer, she was a doctor. The divemaster was a new Cave DM - about 4 months old. The trio dove Dos Ojos then went for lunch. After lunch, they decided to dive Chac Mool too...
(1) Based on the tanks that were taken from the shop and the fact that they did not return for refills, the investigation concluded the DM was not diving on a 3000 psi tank and had used the same tank on the dives at Dos Ojos. This makes it impossible for the DM to follow the most basic rule of cavern/cave diving - the rule of thirds: 1/3 in, 1/3 out, end dive with 1/3.
(2) They entered the water around 5:30PM - close to sunset. This is major rule violation for guiding inexperienced cavern divers. They dove the cenote at night - which is very disorienting.
(3) They left the cavern guide line. Within a cavern, along the line, you are never more than 60 seconds away from air pockets or surface and there are arrows on the line pointing to the exit. Away from the line, you risk wandering into confusion, death and danger.
(4) They were inside a cave when found. All of the cave entries are marked with clear signs with skull and crossbones, warnings and STOP signs. It is unfathomable that the DM somehow led inexperienced divers into a cave system.
The rescue divers commenced the search around 9PM. They searched the caverns, hit all the known air pockets, and found nothing. Around midnight, they started branching out into the caves. The 3 were found inside a cave system. The DM was completely dry. The woman was also completely out of air but she still had her regulator in her mouth and her mask on. The man was without mask or regulator but had 700psi. This was the mystery - no one can figure out why he still had air...
There were unbelievable catastrophic violations of almost every cavern diving rule. So, that being said, be very picky about who you dive the cenotes with. Also, remember, DO NOT JUST BLINDLY FOLLOW THE DIVEMASTER. Our most basic rule of diving is that each one of us is responsible for our own safety. If those divers had stayed on the cavern line, this tragedy would not have happened. My DM described horrific details of what he saw when he found the bodies and the experience completely disturbed him - as it would us all. The only good thing that can come of this is that we all learn from this experience -- divemasters and divers alike.
The couple was in their early 30's with decent dive experience (about 60+/- dives) on their honeymoon. He was an engineer, she was a doctor. The divemaster was a new Cave DM - about 4 months old. The trio dove Dos Ojos then went for lunch. After lunch, they decided to dive Chac Mool too...
(1) Based on the tanks that were taken from the shop and the fact that they did not return for refills, the investigation concluded the DM was not diving on a 3000 psi tank and had used the same tank on the dives at Dos Ojos. This makes it impossible for the DM to follow the most basic rule of cavern/cave diving - the rule of thirds: 1/3 in, 1/3 out, end dive with 1/3.
(2) They entered the water around 5:30PM - close to sunset. This is major rule violation for guiding inexperienced cavern divers. They dove the cenote at night - which is very disorienting.
(3) They left the cavern guide line. Within a cavern, along the line, you are never more than 60 seconds away from air pockets or surface and there are arrows on the line pointing to the exit. Away from the line, you risk wandering into confusion, death and danger.
(4) They were inside a cave when found. All of the cave entries are marked with clear signs with skull and crossbones, warnings and STOP signs. It is unfathomable that the DM somehow led inexperienced divers into a cave system.
The rescue divers commenced the search around 9PM. They searched the caverns, hit all the known air pockets, and found nothing. Around midnight, they started branching out into the caves. The 3 were found inside a cave system. The DM was completely dry. The woman was also completely out of air but she still had her regulator in her mouth and her mask on. The man was without mask or regulator but had 700psi. This was the mystery - no one can figure out why he still had air...
There were unbelievable catastrophic violations of almost every cavern diving rule. So, that being said, be very picky about who you dive the cenotes with. Also, remember, DO NOT JUST BLINDLY FOLLOW THE DIVEMASTER. Our most basic rule of diving is that each one of us is responsible for our own safety. If those divers had stayed on the cavern line, this tragedy would not have happened. My DM described horrific details of what he saw when he found the bodies and the experience completely disturbed him - as it would us all. The only good thing that can come of this is that we all learn from this experience -- divemasters and divers alike.
JamesK
Contributor
Denise,
Glad you had a great, successful, and most importantly safe trip!!!
I do have some comments about your posts. The number correspond with yours.
1) Not 100% true. You can recalculate thirds and make another dive. You do not need a full fill to do this. Is is smart to do on a dive like this? Not in my opinion, but I do it for cavern dives after a cave dive a lot to burn off gas.
2) Major violation is correct. It is because a cavern is classified as a car once light is no longer visible from the surface.
3) What systems caverns have a air pocket or entrance always 60' away? Are you stating this as it is what constitutes a cavern, or because the caverns you were in were like this?
4) I could not agree more!
Glad you had a great, successful, and most importantly safe trip!!!
I do have some comments about your posts. The number correspond with yours.
1) Not 100% true. You can recalculate thirds and make another dive. You do not need a full fill to do this. Is is smart to do on a dive like this? Not in my opinion, but I do it for cavern dives after a cave dive a lot to burn off gas.
2) Major violation is correct. It is because a cavern is classified as a car once light is no longer visible from the surface.
3) What systems caverns have a air pocket or entrance always 60' away? Are you stating this as it is what constitutes a cavern, or because the caverns you were in were like this?
4) I could not agree more!
DeniseFox
New
1) I am not a Cave diver, or a divemaster and certainly not a cave divemaster. According to my DM, he never leads divers with less than a full tank. A DM who gets lost and low on air is a recipe for disaster. It was his opinion that a full tank could have made all the difference in leading them out. Also, there are rules posted at the cenotes that require full tanks and rule of thirds adherence. As most of these cenotes are privately owned and operated, I'm not sure of the genesis of the rule - but my DM said that when he is responsible for other people's lives, full tank is required.
2) I think you mean cave, not car, no?
3) I am not defining anything. At the cenotes in the playa area, the cavern lines are created this way. So in the briefing, the DMs tell the divers that if they follow the arrows on lines, they are no more than 60 seconds away from air. You'd have to ask a cenote DM for further explanation.
2) I think you mean cave, not car, no?
3) I am not defining anything. At the cenotes in the playa area, the cavern lines are created this way. So in the briefing, the DMs tell the divers that if they follow the arrows on lines, they are no more than 60 seconds away from air. You'd have to ask a cenote DM for further explanation.
Denise, I think what James is trying to say is that the definition of cavern permit divers to be 130 feet from the nearest air. Some caverns and caves have air domes, but the air in them is not always safe to breathe. (If you can't see daylight through the ceiling somewhere, keep your reg in your mouth!) There is no rule that requires that divers always be 60 feet from an air source.
The bottom line is that overhead environments are unforgiving, and nobody is responsible to keep someone safe on a dive except the diver himself.
The bottom line is that overhead environments are unforgiving, and nobody is responsible to keep someone safe on a dive except the diver himself.
Denise, were you diving with Nando?
JamesK
Contributor
Denise,
1) Absolutely. I was simply saying it is not impossible to dive thirds with a non full tank.
2) Yes, I meant cave. Dang iPhone! Lol!
3) That is what I was wondering. The nice lady explained my question pretty good.
I was not trying to be an argumentative butt cheese, I just wanted clarification.
1) Absolutely. I was simply saying it is not impossible to dive thirds with a non full tank.
2) Yes, I meant cave. Dang iPhone! Lol!
3) That is what I was wondering. The nice lady explained my question pretty good.
I was not trying to be an argumentative butt cheese, I just wanted clarification.
Not all thirds are created equal.
If James goes to Ginnie Springs and completes a dive with 1,500 PSI remaining in steel LP 108 doubles and decides to go into the cavern to burn off some of that gas, he is starting his dive with about 120 cubic feet of air. That is more than 50% more air than a diver starting a dive with a full AL 80. It is about 75% of full double AL 80s.
Let's say he runs into a problem at a depth of 70 feet. He has roughly a third of that gas to solve the problem, and that might last him 13-14 minutes.
If a diver enters the same system and has the same problem while wearing a full AL 80, that diver has about 8-9 minutes to solve that problem.
BlackPatch
Registered
Lynne.
Read this prior to going to Mexico and Diving Cenotes Tajma Ha, Chac Mool and Kukulcan.
Dove these Cenotes with Jaime (Jimmy) operating under UTW from the Grand Sirenis.
He is a young guy but was exceptionally patient and conscientious and well experienced in his field.
A credit to the profession. I would definitely Dive with Jimmy again.
It was great to see our DM as a Full Cave Diving Instructor.
His Pre Dive briefing included,
Non silting Propulsive Kicks,
Light operation.
Light Signals.
How to utilize the guideline.
Positioning in terms of the Guideline.
Actions on Line Entanglement.
Rule of Thirds.
Calling the Dive.
What to do in case of separation.
Light Failures.
Cave conservation.
Air share with Demo.
Positioning in relation to the DM and the Group (We dove single file)
Cave signing and its meaning and the fact that these signs are inviolate.
Etc Etc.
Once in the water we did buoyancy checks and had to display good buoyancy control before we could continue with the dive.
Taj Ma Ha was a leisurely dive of 47 mins duration and exceptionally beautiful.
The second dive took in the light pools in the same Cavern, I got cold as I failed (foolishly) to bring a hood.
I motioned my coldness to Jimmy who donated one of his Hoods to me. Awesome chap.
Few days later I went to Chac Mool and Kukulcan. Dive briefing the same as Tajma Ha.
I was at the back and had a Hood this time so I had zero issues with the Cold.
My light was temperamental, an intermittent connection caused occasional Black outs. It didn't bother me at all as I could still see exactly where I was in relation to the group, I was above the Guideline by about 3 feet, so I would fiddle with it enough to get it to work for awhile. Popping up into the air pocket I had a look at the light under Jimmy's watchful gaze, got it fixed and it gave me no more issues.
Upon surfacing we changed tanks, re hydrated and prepped to get into Kukulcan.
This went very similarly to Chac Mool. We followed the DM. Again at the back I chose to remain a little more distant from the guy in front of me and explore the objects around the guideline. The route was circuitous so I could hang and await the return. I enjoyed the solitude, well with in the light zone, away from Halo Clines but slightly away from the group (15m)
That last paragraph may get me flamed, fair enough. The solitude and peace enjoying the view and my bubbles was payment enough.
The Cenote's are not for everyone. I do believe you have to be very in control of yourself to go into an overhead environment. I do believe you have to have a self discipline to sort yourself out if necessary and fix small problems.
You also need good Buoyancy control to A) Get the best out of the Dive and B) to avoid damage to the Environment.
Lynne, your original pointers were a great pick up for me.
Jimmy was great and we dove as a 3 plus DM in Taj Ma Ha and as a 4 plus DM in Chac mool and Kukulcan.
Read this prior to going to Mexico and Diving Cenotes Tajma Ha, Chac Mool and Kukulcan.
Dove these Cenotes with Jaime (Jimmy) operating under UTW from the Grand Sirenis.
He is a young guy but was exceptionally patient and conscientious and well experienced in his field.
A credit to the profession. I would definitely Dive with Jimmy again.
It was great to see our DM as a Full Cave Diving Instructor.
His Pre Dive briefing included,
Non silting Propulsive Kicks,
Light operation.
Light Signals.
How to utilize the guideline.
Positioning in terms of the Guideline.
Actions on Line Entanglement.
Rule of Thirds.
Calling the Dive.
What to do in case of separation.
Light Failures.
Cave conservation.
Air share with Demo.
Positioning in relation to the DM and the Group (We dove single file)
Cave signing and its meaning and the fact that these signs are inviolate.
Etc Etc.
Once in the water we did buoyancy checks and had to display good buoyancy control before we could continue with the dive.
Taj Ma Ha was a leisurely dive of 47 mins duration and exceptionally beautiful.
The second dive took in the light pools in the same Cavern, I got cold as I failed (foolishly) to bring a hood.
I motioned my coldness to Jimmy who donated one of his Hoods to me. Awesome chap.
Few days later I went to Chac Mool and Kukulcan. Dive briefing the same as Tajma Ha.
I was at the back and had a Hood this time so I had zero issues with the Cold.
My light was temperamental, an intermittent connection caused occasional Black outs. It didn't bother me at all as I could still see exactly where I was in relation to the group, I was above the Guideline by about 3 feet, so I would fiddle with it enough to get it to work for awhile. Popping up into the air pocket I had a look at the light under Jimmy's watchful gaze, got it fixed and it gave me no more issues.
Upon surfacing we changed tanks, re hydrated and prepped to get into Kukulcan.
This went very similarly to Chac Mool. We followed the DM. Again at the back I chose to remain a little more distant from the guy in front of me and explore the objects around the guideline. The route was circuitous so I could hang and await the return. I enjoyed the solitude, well with in the light zone, away from Halo Clines but slightly away from the group (15m)
That last paragraph may get me flamed, fair enough. The solitude and peace enjoying the view and my bubbles was payment enough.
The Cenote's are not for everyone. I do believe you have to be very in control of yourself to go into an overhead environment. I do believe you have to have a self discipline to sort yourself out if necessary and fix small problems.
You also need good Buoyancy control to A) Get the best out of the Dive and B) to avoid damage to the Environment.
Lynne, your original pointers were a great pick up for me.
Jimmy was great and we dove as a 3 plus DM in Taj Ma Ha and as a 4 plus DM in Chac mool and Kukulcan.
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