Cavern dive instructor recommendations

[Bobby]

There is always more than one way to skin a cat. With the regulators I use the hp port is angled so that if the 1st stages were facing up it would give the hp hose a downward angle. It is not drastic however it is still angling down. I dive with my fist stages facing down which angles my spg up into my arm pit. My cylinders are too far back behind my arm pits to have the spg running down the cylinder. I already have extension posts on my spg's to get them far enough forward for me to be able to pull them a touch and read them when they are facing forward. I've tried having them face back and I simply can't get them into a position to be able to see them without pulling the cylinder far out to the side. Here is a pic of my setup and it is clear that the spg's are well up into my arm pits. My chest and belly drag well before my cylinders much less my 1st stages or spg's.



The not so well veiled digs at Edd are childish. Full disclosure; Edd and I are friends and he is also a dealer for our lights, however if there were an issue with his configuration, he would tell you that I would be one of the first to bring it to his attention. Over the years Edd and I both have changed and improved our gear configurations as well as our skills. We have questioned each other, made changes based on the others suggestions, and kept things we liked for ourselves. Our gear configuration is different however the end result is similar and we both still and always will work on making it and our skills better.

Below is a link to a video I shot of Edd showing me a new section he found and laid the line in at Hole in the wall. Not only does he not have anything dragging in the silt in a smallish passage, you can see from the floor in the video, that he didn't drag anything while laying the line. We scootered back to the start of this passage, on a stage, so his cylinders were full in the video. I've been around long enough to have seen the past factions and petty mud slinging. Now, as back then, the main characters have moved on while a few minions keep beating a very dead horse. In all disagreements, hind sight is 20/20, both sides would likely do a few things a little differently if they had the chance. Lets just move on and go dive.

Please excuse the video quality as this is not something I have much skill or experience. The video was secondary to Edd showing me the new passage and it was the first time I had used this particular video camera. When the screen went off I thought the camera was shutting off. I kept shutting it off then back on because I didn't realize it was a battery saving feature and the camera was still on. This was my first dive with this camera.

https://www.facebook.com/uwlightdude/videos/vb.313962071950788/1033000716713583/?type=2&theater

 

[nakatomi]

Not only does he not have anything dragging in the silt in a smallish passage, you can see from the floor in the video, that he didn't drag anything while laying the line.

Of course his SPG's did not drag on your dive. As bamafan mentioned, Edd uses angled valves for most of his tanks so his SPG's in the video are most likely fine.
The problem are the people who do the same as him and who don't have these angled valves, with floppy hoses and brass SPG's (thanks tbone for reminding us about that) adding to the effect.

Now, as back then, the main characters have moved on while a few minions keep beating a very dead horse.

I wish it were so Bobby...
Sadly I have to say, and this is based on my extended stays in Marianna in 2014 and 2015, that not all of the main characters have moved on.

Nonetheless, IMHO it should be allowed to question and discuss certain aspects of teaching, like the SPG or light canister placement, how else can the community learn and progress?

 

[karstdvr]

and what was the OP's question????

 

[nakatomi]

and what was the OP's question????

He was seeking opinions (and experiences) about cavern and cave instructors. I do believe this discussion is not very far off at this point.

 

[karstdvr]

He was seeking opinions (and experiences) about cavern and cave instructors. I do believe this discussion is not very far off at this point.

Hmmm...think he may have been asking for a glass of water,but he got the north Atlantic. We are into sidemount configurations, etc..... we left cavern a long time ago.

 

[Bobby]

Of course his SPG's did not drag on your dive. As bamafan mentioned, Edd uses angled valves for most of his tanks so his SPG's in the video are most likely fine.
The problem are the people who do the same as him and who don't have these angled valves, with floppy hoses and brass SPG's (thanks tbone for reminding us about that) adding to the effect.

I had a long reply to this and decided to take pictures before I posted. I went down to the shop to take the pictures of my regs on cylinders and noticed that my hp ports are rather straight or angled slightly the opposite of how I thought they were. I have straight, not angled, valves. I use brass spg's and have extensions on them to get them just forward of my arm pits. I don't however use the floppy hoses as I found them unreliable. I have also added hose keepers to help stiffen the hoses so they don't sag. Now after looking closely at the hp port angle I can see how putting the 1st stages on top would help get the hp hoses and spg higher. I don't know how well it will work with my configuration as my spg's are already high up into my arm pits however I'm going to flip everything around when I come down in a couple of weeks to try it out. For me, I believe it will put the 1st stage too high and not only put a hard bend on my hp hose it will likely mess up my hose routing a bit. If my cylinders were lower on my body or canted then this would likely work better. I won't know for sure though until I get it in the water and try it.

I wish it were so Bobby...
Sadly I have to say, and this is based on my extended stays in Marianna in 2014 and 2015, that not all of the main characters have moved on.

Opinions vary and things change with time. Just let it go and leave it be, IMHO.

Nonetheless, IMHO it should be allowed to question and discuss certain aspects of teaching, like the SPG or light canister placement, how else can the community learn and progress?

In case you still don't get it these types of statements are what I'm calling out. If this was not a dig at Edd then you should know that to me and others it comes across as such. Like I said earlier I've known Edd for a long time and he is always questioning how he does things as well as working to improve both his gear configuration and skills. I've never taken a class with him however I've seen & heard him teaching classes and heard him talk with divers countless times. He has strong opinions, as I do, however he also gives alternatives to his approach and explains his reasons for why he does things the way he does. In the video that I posted Edd was his biggest critic and he noticed a number of things he was not happy with. After we watched the video he went out to his gear and made a number of adjustments to correct the minor flaws he had seen on the video.

I haven't taught for around 10 years however when I was teaching I heavily critiqued students configurations. If I thought a student was unsafe to themselves or their team I would not allow a diver to use a configuration. Our job is to teach to make divers safe and competent, and part of that is having strong opinions about acceptable gear configuration. Teaching the why as well as the how is extremely important and I know he does that.

Edd has questioned why I have things the way I do in my configuration as I have done with him. My light is mounted differently than he mounts his. I have reasons for it and when he has asked I've explained how and why I do things. Neither of us has changed and neither of us has a problem with how the other does things. We both dive together and don't have a problem. I don't take it personal, and actually like that he questions things. It keeps me thinking and looking at my gear which might lead me to finding a better way and I know he feels the same. Enough said on this topic.

Back to the original question. I'm not seeing how having the 1st stages on top of the valves puts the hp hose in a better position to not drag, if the cylinders are level and inline with the body. I'm not saying you're wrong, I simply don't understand how it is better. Then again my rig is one I made myself and my cylinders sit with the valves well back behind my arm pits and level with my body. If anything they are closer to my back than my chest. If I get negative on a flat surface my belly and chest are what hit, with my cylinders and 1st stage not touching. I'm guessing that having the 1st stages on top of my valves will likely put them too high, for me, however I'll find out in a couple of weeks.

 

[nakatomi]

Hmmm...think he may have been asking for a glass of water,but he got the north Atlantic. We are into sidemount configurations, etc..... we left cavern a long time ago.

Well since he is now taking sidemount, cavern and intro with Edd, I think he got some very valuable information and pointers.

 

[nakatomi]

Back to the original question. I'm not seeing how having the 1st stages on top of the valves puts the hp hose in a better position to not drag, if the cylinders are level and inline with the body. I'm not saying you're wrong, I simply don't understand how it is better.

First stages angled downwards, SPG's pointing down:




First stages angled upwards, SPG's level/pointing up:

 

[The Chairman]

I look forward to his class report as well.

FWIW, my regs face inward and neither up or down. It works for me and how I clip my tanks off.

 

[uncfnp]

...//...

He has strong opinions, as I do, however he also gives alternatives to his approach and explains his reasons for why he does things the way he does...//...

I've only spend a week with Edd so far but this was exactly the approach I experienced.