Canadian woman presumed dead - Roatan, Honduras

[t-mac]

Makes this even more perplexing and likely that the real problem was medical if it played out this
way. Thanks for the additional info.

 

[Terry Harrison]

I took a photo of Clay's dive computer when we started him on air on the boat. I wanted a separate record just to document it (I'm a retied cop and it's ingrained to document, document, document). I had just put in a new memory card and wanted to be able to give it to the police instead of them confiscating Clay's computer.

 

[rx7diver]

[HIJACK]

Jumping in the water with my tank valve shut is one of my worst fears.

Same here...I

soldsoul4foos and BFRedrocks,

This sort of thing should merely be an inconvenience for a rec diver. It is nothing to be fearful of, IMHO. I learned long ago to reflexively reach over my right shoulder with my right hand to locate the tank valve knob and turn the valve on (if I should suddenly find it turned off). I might need to reach back with my left hand, and push up on the bottom of my tank to assist.

I am more than a little "concerned" whenever a particular gear configuration will NOT allow me to readily do this.

One of my favorite gear configurations for rec diving involves my Scubapro Stab Jacket and my HP 80. However, in this configuration, my HP 80 is so short and so far down my back that I can NOT access its valve knob as described above. I have to doff my SSJ, pull it around in front of me, and then turn the valve on--which is straightforward to do, but is NOT as immediate as what I describe above. In the case of this configuration, one needs to be practiced and completely comfortable with doffing and donning, perhaps in mid-mater, especially if a drysuit hose (say) is involved.

Another (relatively new) favorite gear configuration for rec diving involves a double hose regulator on an Al 63 on a VDH plate with a harness and crotch strap. In this configuration, I need to loosen my waist strap (to relax the crotch strap), use my left hand to pull down on a shoulder strap (to pull the tank higher), and then reach the tank valve knob with my right hand and turn the valve on. Again, straightforward, but practice is key.

Tacit in all of this is the understanding that one has a *lot* of time to do any of the above, even if you have completely exhaled when you discover that your tank valve is closed, even if you have been working hard and are winded when you discover that your tank valve is closed. One of the things I am most thankful for is the fact that my long ago open water course stressed just how much time a diver actually has to solve this kind of problem even if he/she is completely stressed, even if he/she is completely out of air. Again, practice is the key.

And, of course, if all else fails, dropping one's weight belt and/or ditching one's scuba altogether should always remain an emergency option for a rec diver.

Save Diving,

rx7diver

[/HIJACK]

 

[CuzzA]

I'm sorry, I missed putting this in my original post. Didn't realize it until I read your post.

She said she would get into the water and the Captain would give her, her BCD in the water because she had bad knees and could not carry the weight on the boat. So the BCD had to have enough air to float when she got it from the Captain. Now, I did not see this, so I am going on how she said she would be getting her gear together for the dive.

Speculation...

Makes you wonder if the valve was inadvertently partially closed as her rig was placed in the water. You would think with her level of experience she would know to open the valve if that were the case, but then again with the inability to don her kit on the boat maybe she also no longer or never had the ability to reach her valve.

After dumping gas from her BC she may not have had the ability to inflate as the ambient pressure increased around her blocked first stage and subsequently went into an uncontrolled descent, gas compressing, suit compressing and the pain of not equalizing, maybe not able to get full breaths, distracted her to the point she was unlikely to recover. Of course a medical issue, other type of BC failure could also be plausible. Setting medical issues aside, clearly there was an inability to inflate her BC, ditch ballast and or swim up her rig. At the moment of an uncontrolled descent the pain from not equalizing would likely leave many divers incapacitated and unable to sort out problems and quickly act on solutions.

End speculation....

I'm glad to hear her body was recovered for the family, without her rig and a good investigator and despite an eye witness account I simply don't see any way we could get to the bottom of this. Of course this unfortunate incident does serve as reminder of the dangers of diving, especially on a dive where there is essentially no bottom for all intents and purposes. These deep wall dives really need to be taken with some extra precautions. Most importantly are you diving a balanced rig that you can swim up if you were to have a BC failure. A redundant gas source seems like a prudent decision as well.

One other issue I see here is pairing with the DM. She essentially did not have a buddy if anyone else had a problem. Which is exactly what happened.

 

[lermontov]

Speculation...

Makes you wonder if the valve was inadvertently partially closed as her rig was placed in the water. You would think with her level of experience she would know to open the valve if that were the case, but then again with the inability to don her kit on the boat maybe she also no longer or never had the ability to reach her valve.

After dumping gas from her BC she may not have had the ability to inflate as the ambient pressure increased around her blocked first stage and subsequently went into an uncontrolled descent, gas compressing, suit compressing and the pain of not equalizing, maybe not able to get full breaths, distracted her to the point she was unlikely to recover. Of course a medical issue, other type of BC failure could also be plausible. Setting medical issues aside, clearly there was an inability to inflate her BC, ditch ballast and or swim up her rig. At the moment of an uncontrolled descent the pain from not equalizing would likely leave many divers incapacitated and unable to sort out problems and quickly act on solutions.

End speculation....

I'm glad to hear her body was recovered for the family, without her rig and a good investigator and despite an eye witness account I simply don't see any way we could get to the bottom of this. Of course this unfortunate incident does serve as reminder of the dangers of diving, especially on a dive where there is essentially no bottom for all intents and purposes. These deep wall dives really need to be taken with some extra precautions. Most importantly are you diving a balanced rig that you can swim up if you were to have a BC failure. A redundant gas source seems like a prudent decision as well.

One other issue I see here is pairing with the DM. She essentially did not have a buddy if anyone else had a problem. Which is exactly what happened.

predive check -predive check- predive check

i doubt the partial closing of the valve would affect much until she got to about 3ATA my guess is a BCD failure or inflator hose split or failure.

Ive had both -a partial turned on valve that simulates an OOA once the ATA increases and a split /leaking inflator hose connection - you keep pumping air and it keeps coming out -and you keep dropping vey scary

 

[DandyDon]

Ditch the weight belt / integrated weights... Something everyone that dives has practiced doing before they got their learners permit = OW cert..
Her not doing this pretty much renders the idea that she was actively working to save herself moot, IMO.

I think most dead divers who are found are found with weights still secure, perhaps because they don't practice ditching. I practice that on the first dive of every trip to help me remember the option and how to reach to do so.

 

[Coztick]

My deepest condolences to all the people this tradegy has touched.
The posture described during decent could certainly have been her trying to reconnect a disconnected LPI. Head tilted, trying to see...Not finning, just working on the task... Oops can't quite get it...gonna have to inflate orally... Choking on a little inhaled water would take a few more precious seconds. Something like this may panic even a seasoned diver when realizing there is no bottom. Having as much experience as she had, I wonder if she stayed too calm for too long while trying to inflate her bc.
They say it's common for a diver to forget that they can just dump the weight if needed.
Stay safe everyone.

 

[archer1960]

My deepest condolences to all the people this tradegy has touched.
The posture described during decent could certainly have been her trying to reconnect a disconnected LPI. Head tilted, trying to see...Not finning, just working on the task... Oops can't quite get it...gonna have to inflate orally... Choking on a little inhaled water would take a few more precious seconds. Something like this may panic even a seasoned diver when realizing there is no bottom. Having as much experience as she had, I wonder if she stayed too calm for too long while trying to inflate her bc.
They say it's common for a diver to forget that they can just dump the weight if needed.
Stay safe everyone.

Possible, but it's hard to believe that someone with 700 dives couldn't fin to slow her descent while working on her inflator hose or valve. I could do that kind of stuff with less than 50.

 

[boulderjohn]

"When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses, not zebras"

--Dr. Theodore Woodward
​

Description: A very highly experienced diver descends, making no evident attempt to stop the descent or any real movement of any kind, until she disappears from view in the depths.

Background facts: In the annual DAN fatality reports, the highest percentage of fatalities by far are associated with cardiac events. In most years, they are roughly 40% of all casualties. Sudden cardiac death is the number one cause of death in the United States.

Comment: A person suffering from sudden cardiac death at the beginning of a descent wold continue to descend without movement until reaching the bottom.

I am having a hard time understanding this search for the zebras highly unusual causes of death in this situation.

 

[muzzon]

I am having a hard time understanding this search for the zebras highly unusual causes of death in this situation.

This is literally 95% of what happens in every accident discussion.