Buddy missing on surface - What would you have done?

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After reading this Don, I'm not sure if it's your fault that you seperated from your buddy, or his? I'm betting that if I asked that question of the three divers involved I'd get three different answers?

The Hole is not that big of an area? Why did you not just go talk to your friend on the bank before deciding to go back down SOLO for a look? Maybe you need to scratch onto that slate, review hand signals with bubble watchers to avoid confusion?

You were all together at 20', so what made you believe that he would have gone back down? Why would you attempt to do this Solo before even confirming that the diver was missing?

I kinda fell asleep duing all the long winded part about pony bottles, and air. But even if you had enough air, doing a solo search is kinda foolish, and extending your dive obviously was NOT part of the plan. Even with a happy computer, you failed to dive your plan for no other reason than because you were too hasty to verify your buddy's whereabouts which were known to people within 80feet of you at the surface?

IMO the lessons learned here should be mainly on your behalf.

I'm curious, why in the heck would anyone who drove 200 miles to dive the hole, leave in the morning after one dive? Granted, the hole is not a reef, however I'd be diviing it at least a couple times a month if I lived anywhere near by. I also think there is more going on here?
 
From above...
DandyDon:
Nope - he'd been informed that I had gone back down to search for him, and I guess he realized his screw up, and whether he felt remorse or just didn't want to be around when I did speak - he left.

We trade at the same Lds, where I'm continuing training, so I suppose our pathes will cross again.

But thanks for a reasonable post. I am going to ignore any I see as otherwise.

And again - I am not going to try to defend my actions, but ask for "what would you do" responses.

I don't think I ever claimed that I thought my actions were a good idea, altho one or more have pretended that I did and based ridicule on that. Other posts here have been helpful. I think that the feeling of "lay down my life for my brother" can be a challening one in an emergency, and it's good to discusss these things openly, so we can better prepare for similar times. Sometimes the answer should be no.
 
What whould I have done?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DandyDon
Thanks for your rational post, but I guess we were posting at the same time...


Okay, this is what your link showed us, my thoughts are in bold. Your story:

"Buddy missing on surface - What would you have done?

I met up with two other divers at a popular practice hole across the state line to descend as a trio [To start off with, a bad idea- if you really adhere to the buddy system. Three-ways don't work]to the 81 ft bottom. I've dived with one several times before, the other as part of a group tour to Belize - saw both of them as multi-card vacation divers [and this means (?)...]who should know what they're doing. Your second error. I try to avoid my nature of wanting to tell them what I think we should do [Your shyness and deference is contrary to accepted diving practices where one 'plans the dive' and gets all contingencies on the table. That's #3.], and respected their training [Their c-cards?] and experiences enough (they'd both done this hole several times before) enough to just participate in group discussion of the dive plan. [What's that, now?]

I don't like diving trios, as that's twice as many buddies for me [So you were supposed to watch the both? It's really not done that way, each is assigned one, a daisy chain, as it were] to watch, but we did our gear checks and went in for what was supposed to be a simple practice dive. With the 5,000 ft elevation, we adjusted the time limit accordingly. Two lessons I did pickup from the experience that I'll mention now:
1-I wrote on my slate in indelible pen "Please stay close" so I'll remember show it to buddies on future diving planning, advising I may point to it later if I feel a need, also as a reminder in case the other(s) are casual about that. Not had that problem with these either of these two before, but - the dive site is viewed a bit boring to all 3 of us, a feeling to change in this story.
2-We had a very interested and willing bubble-watcher along, and I should have suggested "Okay, let's pretend [If that's her assignment, it aint pretend. Kinda hard to bubble watch just 3 in a crowd, though.] she is the boat crew and give her our okay signals before descending and after surfacing" as well as explaining to the watcher to return okays, or call for help if she saw a waving diver. On the next trip there, this watcher was now a paper carded newbie, and we did use both of these ideas, the latter adjusted - "remember to signal each other before and after the dive."

At the bottom, the other two seemed causal about staying in good buddy contact, and I recall feeling uncomfortable about trying to keep both close as I shot a few pics with my new strobe. This was supposed to be a practice [Was that everyone's plan?] and check any new gear dive, with two experienced divers! We did get the trio tighter tho, swam around a bit. No one told me when they hit 1500# [Was that in the plan?] (added that to my permanent slate list too) the simplest of hand signals but one of them [And the other? Already lost? Or just didn't signal? Wasn't asked?] did signal when he hit 1000# and we started our slow ascent, 1 minute stop at 40 ft, 3 minutes or more below 12 ft, but then we got separated by an OW class doing skills on the lines. I kept looking around, but felt we'd made it that far together, so I wasn't very concerned that time. I am more intent on that now, with the permanent request on my slate for a point-to communication. [Hope you don't forget/lose that slate or ever dive with a Ruskie.]

On the surface, I signaled my usual buddy who signaled okay back, but didn't' see the other?! I looked around again, looked to the bubble watcher asking where is so-and-so but I know now she didn't understand what I said and her "I don't know" signal was conveying that. [So no pre planned signals. Sounds like she was just watching the cheese sandwiches] At the time I thought she didn't know where he was. (see above lessons noted)

Having 700# in my back tank, 3000# in my 19 cf pony with both spgs easy to reach, and a computer well within the green zone - my reaction [I have a lot of "reactions". Some have gotten me slapped in bars.] was to tell usual buddy I was going back to search. I did not feel good about it, but then who would feel good the moment. I felt less comfortable later, [You're hitting on something there!] and worked on prevention of ever repeating the problem, but have decided to ask other trained and experienced divers - what would you have done at the moment...?? [I would have waited at the surface for "that usual buddy" to tell me that my planned descent and search was bull goose looney and that he wasn't going to join me. ]

I did a quick search of the 60 ft diameter bottom, then started a circling ascent, with another safety stop and exit with the pony nearly dry, my back tank with 450#. Having not found him in the hole, I left the water to check the parking lot before callng out, and then learned from the bubble watcher that the missing diver was at his car. He didn't say much, nor did I - as I wanted to cool my temper for a while before speaking, but he loaded up and left the site before I did - 200 miles back, skipping the other planned dives.

Yep, it was a continuation of the dive when I descended again - realized that at the time and did so only after checking my computer which was quite happy - well within the green. For the record, 700# in an 80 cf tank should be plenty for a diver to make a somewhat safe ascent from 80 ft, in addition to the 3000# 19 cf I used for the bounce - so yes, I did have backup gas to ascend if the other source failed. I had the pony gauge in one hand for the entire time I used it. Not defending the action, but clarifying that I did have the equivalent of 1450# for the extension of the dive.

Again, it was a spur of the moment reaction [Remember what happens to me in bars as mentioned above!] to search for a missing buddy - with 1450#, a happy computer, dive light in one hand and spg in the other, ending with a safety stop. I did not feel good about it at the time, less so afterwards.[Another hindsight view.]
"endquote

So fifteen different ways you realized after some thought that you executed a bad dive plan. We all agree.

But you have a "question". Your question is, "what would you do", inferring that if another would do less he should be... what... less heroic?

You can defend your moves socially, mathematically, or whatever. If you're going to do ill advised stuff, it really won't matter. If you're croaked, you're croaked. Sometimes they write books about boneheaded divers but submarines usually are the key to selling books.

One's best role? Report the incident and organize or assist in the rescue process. Your one-man futile search could have been amplified manifold had you gotten to the entry point and coralled some more divers. Your communication skills to the other divers at the surface who ignored you? Apparently not sufficient.

Your best role is as a resource of information to a dive team with zero bottom time. Tell them (hopefuly rescue trained) what, where, when, etc. Help them make a plan if the don't get it. Better they descend for 35 minutes and grope about than what 1450 pounds of air can do. Your meager efforts were, I am sorry to say, a waste. Luckily the victim "wasn't".

Pre-dive communication & planning, underwater communication, surface communication, incident management.

You asked. That's it.

Don, I gottta tell'ya... lose the pony tank. (or have I said that before? )
 
RoatanMan:
Don, I gottta tell'ya... lose the pony tank. (or have I said that before? )
Exactly.... when your pony tank makes you start doing stupid things because "hey, I have a pony tank," then it's time to hang it up.
 
pants!:
Exactly.... when your pony tank makes you start doing stupid things because "hey, I have a pony tank," then it's time to hang it up.

And Don, since this has some up a few times, and you still didn't seem to get it....thinking of a redundant air source as a reliable source of air for contingency planning is one of those stupid things pants is talking about up there.

I know you think we're going on the attack here (me especially, it seems...), but what you need to understand here is twofold. One, many of us see you posting about the same mistakes being made over and over again, and you have been lucky enough so far not to get caught by Darwin while making those mistakes. Second, in this and a few other cases, we see you posting about these mistakes, without acknowleding (or perhaps understanding) them as mistakes when another user posts looking for advice on a situation they went through. Now we have to worry about newbie divers getting the idea that if they lost their dive knife on a dive, and they have 500PSI of back gas, and the pony they got because they are the newes member of the DandyDon fan club after he was so nice about greeting them in the New Users forum...well, let's use that pony and retrace our dive to find that knife, by golly!

If you want to keep doing stuff like this and posting about it on here, and keep being lucky enough to survive it, please at least add a disclaimer to your sig line. Something like: "Attnn New Divers: Do not try this on your own dives. I am just an idiot who keeps escaping fate." That way, at least, they can't try to hold you liable when they get themselves messed up or worse repeating the same feats you post about on here...
 
Don:
...exit with the pony nearly dry, my back tank with 450#.

Don,

Can you please explain when you went to the pony? Did you breath your back-gas down to 450#, then switch to the pony and then breath it dry? Did you go back and forth? Or did you breath the pony down first and then breath the back-gas down to 450#?

And then, when you tell us how you did it, can you also explain why you did it that way?

Thanks!
 
The question was "what would you have done," but okay - some people just cannot resist the kick a guy when he's already admitted mistake.

Rick Inman:
Don,

Can you please explain when you went to the pony? Did you breath your back-gas down to 450#, then switch to the pony and then breath it dry? Did you go back and forth? Or did you breath the pony down first and then breath the back-gas down to 450#?

And then, when you tell us how you did it, can you also explain why you did it that way?

Thanks!
I switched to my 19 cf before descending the second time as I knew if had more than the back tank. I thought it best, if I were to do this, to use it for the attempt, and use the 700# in the back tank to ascend if the pony ran out before I felt I'd finished.

The pony did run close to dry as I approached the safety stop I think it was, and I switched back to the main tank then for that.

But I think the general consensus has been established - I should not have descended. No argument there. Mistake made, survived, now to remember the lesson.
 
My concern is, two weeks from now, if you were asked under what circumstances you should consider using your pony, the answer would not be significantly different from what it was two weeks ago.
 
DandyDon:
The question was "what would you have done," but okay - some people just cannot resist the kick a guy when he's already admitted mistake.
No one is kicking you.

We're concerned for you.
 
DandyDon:
The question was "what would you have done," but okay - some people just cannot resist the kick a guy when he's already admitted mistake.
Mistake made, survived, now to remember the lesson.

I think its admirable that you laid all this out. A good learning lesson for many.

Here's the lesson learned: Hey, everybody... take the RESCUE DIVER certification! Then practice what you learn.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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