BSAC avoids annual VIP

[Compressor]

Here's another angle to this issue:
I know many students that got their own tank but with the VIP expired, they stopped diving; every time I ask them to go diving they say, my tank does not have a VIP.

Yes, one can argue that they are not serious divers but consider that if the barriers (q1 year VIP) were removed (safely) many more people would probably dive.

 

[Bob DBF]

...that's over some stupid low PSI like 200 *can't remember exact pressure*

My recollection is around 125#, but it is certainly not close to SCUBA tank pressures.

What's the risk? pretty bloody low until you get into an accident and highway patrol is in a bad mood

The highway patrol feels it's bad form for anyone to lose a load on their highway. I have a great two beer story about involving a half ton of chicken s**t, a flying trailer and the CHP. The only good thing was back then hazmat response was limited and no one called the EPA.


Bob

 

[txgoose]

We need to go drink. I have a story about a truck leaving a chicken rendering plant back during my college days.

 

[MaxE]

oh yes they do. Not allowed to transport that kind of pressure on highways without DOT stamps on tanks. That's very much illegal. Carrying anything over 1000lbs *vessel and gas* that's over some stupid low PSI like 200 *can't remember exact pressure*, it's automatically considered commercial and you have to have a HAZMAT CDL. Fun fact.

Also, transporting for commercial purposes gets really fuzzy when rental tanks are involved. What's the risk? pretty bloody low until you get into an accident and highway patrol is in a bad mood

I’m not trying to be a smart ass or doubt the correctness of what you have said. But 1, the tanks do have a DOT stamp, and we should assume they are in hydro. Your statement and others about the pressure threshold would then include grandpas o2 cylinder, billy bob’s bbq tank, joe the welders set up strapped to the rack on the back of his pick-up, and the boy scouts who just went to Walmart for some of the green gas cans for their camping stove. I’m never surprised by the ability of humankind to have stupid rules, regulations, and laws. I do however find that generally there are exceptions to deal with what would be common conflicts with these regulations, either expressly stated in the regulation or through practical administration of the requlation. In this case I would still think enforcement would be limited to transport for commercial purposes.

 

[shurite7]

Why would a cylinder have corrosion in it? The only moisture that can enter a tank is through the compressed gas pumped into it. That should be dry. I know there are some parts of the world where the compressor operators are so bad that this is not true - in the UK air is pumped dry. It is very very unusual to have problems. The problem is not the tanks it is the compressor - the only reason to have more frequent inspections is that you are buying a tank full of crap from your LDS.

This post implies people in the world are perfect and never do anything wrong/stupid.

I have seen, in person, people who had something, other than air, in the tank. In one case a PSDiver ran out of air while training in the pool. To continue training he breathed off another diver's alt. second stage. When the training was done I opened up the tank and poured out half a cup of water. I know for a fact, there was no water in the tank prior. In another case I found two out of four tanks had a large amount of rust and muck at the bottom. The people were getting air fills from a dive shop out on the coast that was allowing moisture to get in the tank. Luckily the tanks were saved because they brought it in for a vip. A friend of mine loaned his tank to another diver who ran out of air. Six months later he decided to have the tank vip'd. It had a significant amount of water in it which had turned to muck. I found several large pits in the tank; both the hydro tester and I condemned the tank. In another case a couple of people brought their tanks to me complaining the valves were not functioning correctly. When I opened up the tanks there was oil in it, yes oil. They were getting their tanks filled at a place that did not require checks or regular compressor maintenance. A friend of mine found dead rodents in a tank. The owners initially claimed they had done nothing to their tanks. Later they confessed they had taken the valves off to have a look inside to satisfy their curiosity.

To make things clear, I am not condoning or condemning the annual vip. What I am pointing out is people do stupid things that can possibly, granted a low chance, in some cases it has, compromise the integrity of a cylinder.

for funsies. Here's prices from a local shop
Hydro-$55
VIP-$25 *not included in hydro price*
Valve Rebuild-$25+parts, also not included in hydro price
Nitrox fill-$12-not included in vip price.

In my area the prices are
Hydro - $50 (includes hydro, vip and air fill)
VIP - $25 (includes vip, and air fill)
Valve rebuild - $20 plus parts. Most people do not want the valve rebuilt until it causes problems.

 

[kelemvor]

DOT cover transportation of tanks. As long as you not transport your tank (on public roads) pressurized they have no saying.

I thought I remember those rules only applying to *commercial* transportation. @Wookie seems pretty versed in "da rules" if I remember correctly. Am I wrong?

 

[boulderjohn]

When the training was done I opened up the tank and poured out half a cup of water. I know for a fact, there was no water in the tank prior.

A friend of mine entered a downward sloping swim-through in Cozumel, and was soon signaled by the diver behind him, who was OOA despite it being the very beginning of the dive. They later pulled the valve from the tank and dumped about a liter of rusty water out of the tank. There was no dip tube on the valve.

I once opened a steel tank for inspection and immediately saw that when the tank had last been opened and cleaned, the valve must have had just a little water in it when it was reinstalled. That water had dripped down to the bottom of the tank and created a small hole of rust.

 

[Sam Miller III]

Oil, Water & Rust

All can be an enemy of SCUBA tanks

The very early SCUBA tanks did not have dip sticks-- An unfortunate almost fatal event similar to Johns friend at Cozumel occurred at Scrips Institution of Oceanography (SIO) in the pre dawn of recreational diving which caused the industry to create a dip tube on SCUBA Units

About ten or more years later Voit under the engineering leadership of (F.M) Fred Roberts created a removeable cleanable dip tube

A few years later Voit returned to a permanent non removeable dip tube

And some one in Cozumel was using a SCUBA tank with no dip tube -- after all theses good and great years ?

Sure interesting -- John you have the greatest stories

SAm Miller, 111

 

[boulderjohn]

And some one in Cozumel was using a SCUBA tank with no dip tube -- after all theses good and great years ?

Not only that....

A number of years ago I learned that the owner of a scuba agency stopped has using dip tubes in his personal tanks because they are all too likely to come out and make an annoying rattling sound when you move the tank.

 

[kelemvor]

What I am pointing out is people do stupid things that can possibly, granted a low chance, in some cases it has, compromise the integrity of a cylinder.

True, but people do stupid things to all kinds of dive gear - not just tanks.

Honestly, it's not very hard to remove a valve and have a glance inside your tank between fills. The hardest part is convincing yourself that draining the tank completely isn't as bad as some would make it sound. I think I got used to draining my tanks anyway because my LDS does PP blends and prefers an empty tank. Since I was draining my tanks anyway, it seemed like a no brainier to have a glance inside on a regular basis.

I did find a small spot of "surface" rust once in one of my steels. I am not sure how the water got in there to create the rust. I was guessing maybe from condensation caused by rapidly dumping the gas. The tanks have only ever been completely empty when I dump them right before a fill. I have had fills at various shops around FL though so I guess bad fill might be another possibility. I never figured it out, but had the shop tumble and clean the tank and it's as good as new now. It's been a few years and a hydro since then.