BP/Wings cheaper than BCD???

[ElectricZombie]

I would tend to agree with those who feel that starting new OW students in a BP/wing set up may be ill advised.

I see just the opposite. The people that start with a BP/wing have less problems in the water when first learning to dive. The BP/wing has a lot of advantages that make getting into diving a lot easier than if the student were to use a jacket or "tech" BC. Also, if the student decides to stick with diving, they already have and are familiar with the gear they need.

 

[will_tekkie]

I see just the opposite. The people that start with a BP/wing have less problems in the water when first learning to dive. The BP/wing has a lot of advantages that make getting into diving a lot easier than if the student were to use a jacket or "tech" BC. Also, if the student decides to stick with diving, they already have and are familiar with the gear they need.

Sorry ElctricZombie but i share the point of view of DA Aquamaster about the initial advantanges of jackets style BC for OW students....i´ve found in my experience ( and in the other´s) that for people with limited in-water experience the jacket style BC tends to be more confortable due to its bouyancy (easier to keep a vertical position), easier to dress up, adjustable straps (just pulling them) and perform a better BC for rent that is quite important for diving schools. Later a BP/wings is a better option for entusiastic divers...BP/Wings BC tends to be a more expensive gear..i can get a cheaper new brand jacket BC for $200 dollars so for beginners is a more affordable gear (remember they have nothing and regs, wetsuit, etc, etc, is also needed). In this forum the most people are fans of BP/wing config ( like me since 7 years ago, in fact i was the only user of this config in my area for looong time, so i know very well its advantanges and disadvantages) but jacket style BC is a great idea, which still valid for most divers...just look around you what still being the main system used..this is for something... :jump013:

 

[simbrooks]

Maybe for the shop to have a fleet of items for use in OW training, but there is no reason a new OW graduate cant get BP/Wings if they have the cash - but diving isnt cheap and i would always buy something at a slightly higher cost if it were better quality than making do with something substandard (cheap rental type BC's) just cos it fit in my budget - i would rather rent than be saddled with such trash i had paid real money for. Would you recommend that OW students go out and get the cheapest BC they can, or to spend a little more for something they might like?

I appreciate the fact that the jacket BC's are easier for the task loaded students, but i also like the fact that once i have set the straps on my harness, they are set and cant easily be loosened during wear (i put keepers where the shoulder strap turns to the waist strap on the back of the BP to keep it at the same on both parts) which i find comforting. Well anyway, with creditcards most things are possible to afford and pay off reasonably quickly. I think BP/Wings get a bad rap for being expensive, i can think of various BC's intended for use in singles and doubles that cost more, not everyone needs this capability. I still think you can get a 2nd hand or budget BP/Wings for not much more than a reasonably priced BC, not the cheapest BC, but one that might actually work and not be aimed at the rental/instruction market.

 

[ElectricZombie]

i´ve found in my experience ( and in the other´s) that for people with limited in-water experience the jacket style BC tends to be more confortable due to its bouyancy (easier to keep a vertical position), easier to dress up, adjustable straps (just pulling them) and perform a better BC for rent that is quite important for diving schools.

I don't teach anyone to adopt a vertical position in the water; it's always a horizontal position. The problem with a jacket or "tech" BC is that even with an assortment of adjustment straps, you can never get it to fit as well as a BP/wing. Jacket/"tech" BCs are ill fitting and bulky; just adding to the stress of a new diver. I don't see any need to complicate things for a beginning diver, which is why I suggest a BP/wing. Once the student gets it adjusted, it will fit properly and they don't have to touch it again. It requires the least amount of effort for the student to use and will perform well in the water. If anything, a BP/wing setup will greatly reduce task loading.

Later a BP/wings is a better option for entusiastic divers...BP/Wings BC tends to be a more expensive gear..i can get a cheaper new brand jacket BC for $200 dollars so for beginners is a more affordable gear (remember they have nothing and regs, wetsuit, etc, etc, is also needed).

Well, when you compare a "top of the line" jacket/"tech" BC with all the latest gimmicks to the cost of a BP/wing setup; the BP/wing setup is cheaper. I really don't think you can make much of a comparison between a jacket BC and a BP/wing...it's apples to oranges...totally different.

In this forum the most people are fans of BP/wing config ( like me since 7 years ago, in fact i was the only user of this config in my area for looong time, so i know very well its advantanges and disadvantages) but jacket style BC is a great idea, which still valid for most divers...just look around you what still being the main system used..this is for something... :jump013:

Just because most people are using it doesn't make it right.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I don't think anyone advocates assuming a vertical position under the water but it is important for students on the surface to be comfortable and jacket simply does it better. This is a difficult admission for me as I am very much a back inflate/wing fan. But the fact remains for many, if not most, OW students who also happen to be less than excellent swimmers and are not totally comfortable in the water a well designed and properly fitted jacket does feel more secure.

Someone on the previous page also mentioned being a new diver but with plans to under take cavern and cave training within a relatively short period of time. Obviously this person has a good deal of confidence in the water and starting with a BP/wing makes a lot more sense.

I do not belive in giving a dogmatic one size fits all solution to any question. To make a blanket statement that all new students would be better served by a BP/wing would be incorrect. Similarly it would be equally incorrect to state that all students would be better served with a jacket style BC. What is most appropriate depends on the student and their ultimate plans for development in the sport.

I think it is far more responsible to give objective and unbiased advice to newbies that is in their interests and reflects their needs rather than to give advice that happens to be consistent with my own personal preferences and predjudices.

And in the end the value or perceived worth of the wing on my back is not diminished in anyway by my recognition that a jacket style BC is often a more appropriate choice for many divers.

 

[ElectricZombie]

I don't think anyone advocates assuming a vertical position under the water but it is important for students on the surface to be comfortable and jacket simply does it better.

I was sort of thinking that he was refering to vertical on the surface, but I wasn't sure. Even on the surface, I think the BP/wing works better. I say this because when the jacket is inflated on the surface, it tends to creep up around your head. It really limits your vision and makes you feel closed in. When I first started diving and was using a jacket, this was one of the things I noticed. I have also heard several people comment on this during stays on the surface. Some may claim that a BP/wing would push the diver face down on the surface. Students who started diving with a BP/wing never report this problem. I understand that people may disagree, but I can only find benefits from starting a new diver off with a BP/wing. (Regardless of their future diving aspirations.)

 

[Boogie711]

I have a friend who's a YMCA Open Water Instructor. She's told me that by the third pool session, she has all her students in backplates and wings, and diving with a long hose.

 

[OneBrightGator]

I have to agree with EZ on the surface orientation, with proper weighting the majority of the weight is behind and below the diver, even more so with all of the weight on a weightbelt.

I feel that the correct BP/wings setup is appropriate for 99% of divers out there, so unless a new diver finds a heck of a deal on used equipment a BP/wings is my recommendation.

Ben

 

[OneBrightGator]

I have a friend who's a YMCA Open Water Instructor. She's told me that by the third pool session, she has all her students in backplates and wings, and diving with a long hose.

I would kill to have that opportunity available to my students!

Ben

 

[unfix8r]

I have a DIr Abyss backplate and webbing, and a non-DIR wings, with way too much lift (80#!) ... I love them!

As a DIY guy I took way too long and made a single tank adapter out of stainless plate, and that has to be the best setup I could imagine.

It's also cool that everything is RED, meaning other people can actually SEE ME underwater.

If you want plans for a STA, pm me.