BP/Wing as your first BC?

[sambolino44]

I recently switched from a jacket-stlye Scubapro Classic BC to a DSS BP/W. I don't have very much dive experience, I'm up to a grand total of 54 dives now. I've made a few dives in warm water, but most of my diving is local, Puget Sound, cold water shore dives.

I cannot think of any reason why a beginner would be better off with a BC vs a BP/W all things being equal. What I mean is, the BP/W has more adjustability, thus more potential for bad fit, weight, trim, etc. But a poorly fitted/configured BC can be just as bad.

The discussion on this thread about "integrated" weight, etc. has been interesting. I was very interested in integrating the weight on my new BP/W before I got it. Now that I've used it a few times, it's become a non-issue. I use a drysuit, a steel cylinder, and I got a steel backplate with weight plates, so the amount of lead on my belt has gone down so much, my belt's a lot easier to handle.

If I was doing mostly warm water, single cylinder diving, I think I'd consider one of those harnesses that has no plate. But the way I dive now, having that weight on the plate seems to be working pretty well.

I admit I was influenced by the ScubaBoard to get my BP/W. I already hated my BC, but if it wasn't for this crowd, I probably would have gotten a back-inflate BC instead of a BP/W.

Oh, yeah! I forgot! I really have to get out of this "I hate my jacket-style BC" mode of thinking and concentrate on "What you need is this gently-used state-of-the-art top-brand BC! It's PERFECT!" Yeah! That's the ticket!

 

[rlc5925]

My first BC after certification (1978) was a wing. It was made by a company called ATPAC. Someboby correct me if I'm wrong but this may have been the first wing on the market. I've used a wing style ever since. I found it hard to use a jacket style and could never get comfortable with one after using a wing. I believe you would have no problem with one and would adapt to its characteristics in a few dives. I also believe after adapting it will become your preference in a BC.

 

[Zab]

I see lots of people advocating wings, and just as many people advocating the standard bcd. this seems like those pc vs mac adverts!

I am a new(ish) diver, I've just completed rescue, and I'm about to do my DM course. Obviously nows the time for me to invest in equipment because nows when I need it - so I'm doing my research. I can go for a traditional bcd and it'll probably be absolutely fine! its what I've used up until now, while all means is a pain in the rear at times, are wings really that superior ?

What I'm gleaning from this thread is that a wing will be superior "IF" you have the experience and the know-how to set it up correctly. I'm swimming amongst phrases such as "steel tanks, alu tanks, backplates, harnesses, add-ons, bladders" and lots more bits of terminology that a rec diver doesn't really need to worry about if he has a jacket.

I cant form an opinion here, as I'm not experienced, but as a "novice" without the abiliy to go and try a wing (everyone I know uses jackets) it seems like if I want to kit up buddy check and jump in, a jacket is the quickest and easiest way to do so.

I guess -what I can see from this thread is that if all I ever want to do is single tank rec diving, a jacket will suit the job just fine. However, the allure of wings is tempting me as it seems like a good investment in the future, when I embrace tech diving.

this thread has done nothing but make that wing more tempting!

 

[evil_xander]

What I'm gleaning from this thread is that a wing will be superior "IF" you have the experience and the know-how to set it up correctly. I'm swimming amongst phrases such as "steel tanks, alu tanks, backplates, harnesses, add-ons, bladders" and lots more bits of terminology that a rec diver doesn't really need to worry about if he has a jacket.

this thread has done nothing but make that wing more tempting!

If you can change a lightbulb OR attach a reg to the tank, you'll be able to setup your BP/W. It's really not rocket science, I've assambled mine alone, using only the instructions on the web, nobody guided me personally or held my hand to do it. After two dives, I fine tuned the harness and never looked back or needed to readjust it. Perhaps PADI should make setting up and adjusting a BP/W a specialty.

Go ahead, try one, you know you want to.

 

[John_B]

I'm swimming amongst phrases such as "steel tanks, alu tanks, backplates, harnesses, add-ons, bladders" and lots more bits of terminology that a rec diver doesn't really need to worry about if he has a jacket.

You do, you just don't realize it. What's happening here is that people are taking into account factors that affect how much extra weight they need on a weight belt, in integrated weight pockets, or whatever. In a jacket BC you are still going to need more weight diving an AL80 vs. any type of steel tank.

I cant form an opinion here, as I'm not experienced, but as a "novice" without the abiliy to go and try a wing (everyone I know uses jackets) it seems like if I want to kit up buddy check and jump in, a jacket is the quickest and easiest way to do so.

Once your BP/W harness is setup, its no harder than a BC to dive with. You really only set up the harness once. The tri-glides keep the harness in place.

I guess -what I can see from this thread is that if all I ever want to do is single tank rec diving, a jacket will suit the job just fine. However, the allure of wings is tempting me as it seems like a good investment in the future, when I embrace tech diving.

Since you bring up the concept of good investments... If you are at all on the fence, do yourself a favor and get used (ebay) pricing for any BC you might be considering, since that would be your potential loss if you later sold it for a BP/W. Then get used (ebay) pricing for a BP/W. Why is a lightly used BC only worth +/-30% what you paid for it new, but a backplate and wing holds most of its value?

John

 

[jonix]

@zab: no harm in trying a bp/wing. I dive purely recreational and use a ssbp/wing myself. I can't say it's superior than a bc and I don't think it will ever be. it's just that the simplicity works. more so as I do underwater photography. try it, I know you won't regret it.

 

[Zab]

cool. Thanks guys,

a friend of mine is trying to push me towards a Seaquest QD pro, I'm leaning towards a Dive rite transpac w/ rec wing. - admittedly its one of the more pre-configured bp/w set-ups, but at least it retains modularity, which I guess is something that bp/w setups are all about!

at the minute I'm about to fly back to thailand, I know I'd have trouble finding a store that sells a good range of wings, (i emailed my friend, and he said that i'd need to go to singapore)

So, with that in mind, I guess I need to make up my mind before I go. Sadly I've no chance to try it, as i'm stuck in southwest scotland without any kit, and hopefully going to fly next week.


so far - pros of bp/w are durability, fit, underwater comfort, modularity, self-repair bladders,
cons - cost, its different, got to be careful inflating on surface,

pros of jacket - familiar, easy to use, pockets!
cons - not always easy to dump, not had a bcd that fits right yet, not always comfortable, on a boat, i'm like the michelin man, that seaquest isn't light!

what have I missed ?

 

[PerroneFord]

so far - pros of bp/w are
durability - YES
fit - YES
underwater comfort - YES
modularity - YES
self-repair bladders - YES

cons -
cost - Depends on what you buy. You can get out the door for about $470
its different - YES, like a Porsche is differerent from a Camry
got to be careful inflating on surface - NO, fallacy.


pros of jacket -
familiar - Depends of what you're used to.
easy to use - I find them more difficult to use because they are unstable underwater.
pockets! - YES. But accessing those pockets when the BC is inflated is sometimes problematic.

cons -
not always easy to dump - I don't see to much difference with a BP/W
not had a bcd that fits right yet - Fit can be more problematic.
not always comfortable - Again, related to fit

what have I missed ?

Not too much.

 

[herman]

Zab, another consideration, if your going to be working as a DM some shops require you to use specific equipment-the brand the shop sells or certain model of that equipnent. You might want to check what your shop requires before investing in any gear.

 

[halocline]

a friend of mine is trying to push me towards a Seaquest QD pro, I'm leaning towards a Dive rite transpac w/ rec wing. - admittedly its one of the more pre-configured bp/w set-ups, but at least it retains modularity, which I guess is something that bp/w setups are all about!

so far - pros of bp/w are durability, fit, underwater comfort, modularity, self-repair bladders,
cons - cost, its different, got to be careful inflating on surface,

pros of jacket - familiar, easy to use, pockets!
cons - not always easy to dump, not had a bcd that fits right yet, not always comfortable, on a boat, i'm like the michelin man, that seaquest isn't light!

what have I missed ?

First, the dive-rite transpac is not a BP/W. It's a well designed soft harness, but it's entirely different than a steel BP. The rec wing is not a good one for single tank diving; it's too big and will not be as streamlined or responsive as a smaller wing designed exclusively for single tanks.

About your pros and cons, I think you are missing most of the point to using a BP/W. First, the real pro of using one is that it improves weight distribution and trim for most divers. It's also more streamlined; especially with a simple hog harness. All the "junk" that's wrapped around your body is gone. This, in conjunction with the great weight distribution, makes buoyancy control and trim easier to control more precisely, at least for the majority of divers who use one. The lack of padding, fabric, cummerbund, etc.. on your body improves the feeling of freedom when diving; the harness basically disappears under water. Regarding the cost, you can easily get a high quality BP/W set up for single tank diving under $500. Many high end jacket BCs cost this much. Regarding the pro of familiarity for standard BCs, I can assure you that most BP/W divers are just as familiar with their set ups as are users of standard BCs.

Those are pretty much commonly accepted things by most divers who have used both. Of course there will always be exceptions. Now for pure opinion, I would say again that overall, IMO the design of the standard jacket BC has little to do with it's performance as dive gear, and much to do with marketing and providing the "life preserver" security that helps sell it to new divers.