BP/W or Knighthawk for beginner AOW

[djanni]

You just helped prove my point.

I have yet to encounter any BP/W advocate telling another user why they need a BP/W. When I decided to purchase a BC nobody made me buy one or told that it was going revolutionize my diving. I did and it did, however, that's a different story.



It strange... before I had bought a BP/W I had only seen one person with one. Even after 5 dives with my BP/W I had already seen 6 more. In the 1/5th of my total dives that have been with a BP/W I have seen more people with them than the entire 4/5th of my dives without a BP/W. Perhaps I hadn't noticed it before, or perhaps it was because I started diving with more people than just the primarily recreational divers from one LDS.



I agree completely. After my first trial dive with a rented BP/W (a BWOD nonetheless ) I was surprised by how much easier things were. Yes, I was still a newbie and yes, I still needed to be actively aware of my bouyancy control. A BP/W didn't instantly improve my bouyancy yet it made it much easier for me to control.



Maybe Larry would like to answer this; however, I'll give it a shot. The majority of divers buy jacket style BC's instead of BP/W simply because they either:
1) Don't know about BP/Ws
2) Think BP/Ws are something only for tech divers
3) Notice how many companies sell BCs compaired to BP/W and thus come to the conclusion that BC's are better
4) Their OW instructor didn't use one and so they won't buy one. Since new OW divers make up large portion of most LDS's sales they might buy a BC before they are fully informed about BP/Ws.
5) Don't laugh - maybe they actually like a BC better than a BP/W? Stranger things have happened....

#1 is why some many BP/W users are eager to praise BP/Ws.

Food for though: Have you ever noticed how a high end "tech" BC is more expensive then a BP/W?

 

[djanni]

You just helped prove my point.

Two posts and already starting the trash talk. Nice ... but I'd prefer to think that there are quite a few in this forum who advocate backplates because we'd like to share our own experiences and see if we can save those who are asking the needless expense that we went through.



Well, I'm impressed ... for many of us that's less than two months worth of diving. It's just possible that we know something about gear you haven't had time to figure out yet. FWIW - I wore out two traditional BCD's ... about 500 dives ... before I started diving a backplate. So they're not popular in your area ... could be a lot of reasons for that. See below ...



Only bottom time and proper training will make you a better diver ... higher-end gear will, however, help you make best use of the skills you've already acquired.



As an instructor, I can give you a few reasons ...

1) Dive shops are, first and foremost, a business. They make a higher margin on traditional BCD's than they do on backplates ... so they'll prefer to sell you the product that earns them the most money.

2) BCD's wear out ... so you have to go back to the dive shop and replace them. Again, better for the business.

3) Newer divers tend to look at price first, and purchase "starter" models ... then come back in a couple of years and replace them with more expensive, higher-performance models after they've had enough bottom time to figure out why the low-end BCD they purchased was such a "good deal". Again, it's better for the LDS business.

Also keep in mind that new divers tend to purchase what they use in class, or what they see their instructor using. That's why most shops insist that their shop staff use the gear the store sells. Promoting shop sales is part of the instructor's job.

Now, let's contrast that to a BP/wing ...

1) Profit margins aren't particularly high ... you can purchase a complete BP/W setup for $350 to $500 ... go ahead and price compare that to your typical SeaQuest, ScubaPro or Zeagle BCD.

2) Backplates don't wear out. When the harness eventually does, it costs about $20 to replace it. If you should need a new wing, it's between $200 and $300. Compare that to a BCD replacement.

3) You don't ever need to upgrade to a higher-end backplate system. At best, you'll find a wing who's buoyancy characteristics you like better. See above.

In short, most dive shops don't promote backplates simply because they are not the most profitable item for the shop to promote. The consumer who purchases a BP/W system will spend less than the one who purchases a standard BCD ... and over the course of years, will end up spending less to maintain and/or upgrade as their experience level offers them the opportunities to dive in different, and more challenging, conditions.



Bon apetit ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[halfstep]

kidspot, thanks for your references. Barring any unforseen developments, the diveshop should order the Transplate setup once they provide me the quote (they couldn't find their price list when I was there yesterday). I just feel that the harness was more comfortable and simple than any of the more expensive BCs, and have no illusions that a BP/W will "make me a better diver"

 

[RiverRat]

I switched to BP/W right after my AOW dives. Will never go back. I'm now taking a DM course and I have to use a "traditional" jacket BC for training. I can understand. Shop rules. You train divers in what the shop sells. Although I don't really agree with it. If a diver wants a BP/W right off then train him to dive in it. It's that simple. No reason it can't be done and some shops are doing it. But I can honestly tell you I'm spoiled. Just the fact that the jacket BC "feels" so sloppy. Tank wandering all around. My plate does a much better job of making me and my rig become "one" integrated unit. And so streamlined! And with my drysuit forget it! If I train in it I've now got to find a place to stash an extra 13# of lead! I'm thinking 10# in the trim pockets of the El' Cheapo jacket I've got on order. Anyway, go with your gut, think about what YOU want in your gear. Buy it, tweak it, dive it!

 

[Spoon]

Taking AOW this summer in NJ. Plan on wreck diving and possibly migrating into technical training for extended bottom times. I have 15 dives, only 4 of which have been in cold water.

I've never been satisfied with the support from any BC I've worn, jacket or back inflation; including different sizes or brands. I put on a Transpac last week in the store and it reminded me of my hiking pack, a very enveloping fit. This isn't a BP/W setup, but what's the benefit of the Transpac over the transplate? I like how the plate is -6# bouyant. Plan on single tank diving for awhile until I get 50+ dives for any technical training. Would something like the knighthawk be more conducive for stablity with a single tank? Many postings in the archives contend that the BP/W setup is fine for AOW student.

Is the Trans plate/pac too much for a beginner? I feel that when I go into the store I'm directed to buy what they stock (obviously) but I don't appreciate store owners whom trash other gear (which they don't carry for whatever reasons).

Thank you
tjd

i dont really like the fit of thr transpac. if i were you id get a true bp/harness like the transplate. i am using the halcyon eclipse. you dont have to be advanced to use a backplate. i have been using the eclipse since i started diving. used it from dive 1 to current. wasnt difficult at all. youl get the hang of it the minute you use it.

 

[jonnythan]

i dont really like the fit of thr transpac. if i were you id get a true bp/harness like the transplate. i am using the halcyon eclipse. you dont have to be advanced to use a backplate. i have been using the eclipse since i started diving. used it from dive 1 to current. wasnt difficult at all. youl get the hang of it the minute you use it.

Read posts 9 and 23

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

i dont really like the fit of thr transpac. if i were you id get a true bp/harness like the transplate. i am using the halcyon eclipse. you dont have to be advanced to use a backplate. i have been using the eclipse since i started diving. used it from dive 1 to current. wasnt difficult at all. youl get the hang of it the minute you use it.

It really depends on the individual ... I dived with a TransPlate for a couple hundred dives before switching over to a one-piece harness ... and loved it. Others I know really don't like the "confining" feeling of the chest strap or the way the shoulder straps sit. It depends, IMO, on your build and what you're used to.

FWIW - here's a picture from a recent boat trip. These are all Deep Sea Supply backplates. The rig with the red harness is mine. The rigs on either side are TransPlate harnesses. There were 12 of us on this boat ... 10 in backplates. Of those, seven of us are either DM's or instructors ... some of whom use standard BCD's when teaching, but prefer backplates for their own pleasure diving.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[SangP]

I'll add my 2 cents,

Get a BP/W if:
1. You are ever thinking of doing more than rec diving.
2. Hate cumberbands
3. Can't quite get most bc's to fit cus of your built
4. Love the adjustability of the BP/W combo
5. Love the fact that if something goes pear shape you need only replace that bit and not the whole bc.
That and the fact that a BP/W is getting cheaper and cheaper.

http://stores.ebay.com/Samish-Divers_W0QQsspagenameZL2QQtZkm

SangP

 

[djanni]

Figured as much.... but I also noticed the original poster is from New Jersey so Don's observations about dive boats don't really apply in any way to the thread do they

No doubt about it... I am a Warm-Water-Wuss. Dived Panama City Fl in late May and it was 71-72 degrees and I nearly froze in my 3mm. Had to rent a hood/vest.

Reading between the lines are you suggesting that the basic design concept for backplates lends itself more toward cold water diving and maybe dry suits?

...and by the way - I have nothing against backplates. I think of them similarly to the way I think of a MAC computer. Good machine, reliable, has it's strong points, does some things very well, not mainstream, has strong/passionate cult following, doesn't fair well outside it's intended market space.

Sometimes the passion for bp/w rigs expressed here is... well, you know. I just thank a little balance is appropriate sometimes.

 

[jonnythan]

Reading between the lines are you suggesting that the basic design concept for backplates lends itself more toward cold water diving and maybe dry suits?

...and by the way - I have nothing against backplates. I think of them similarly to the way I think of a MAC computer. Good machine, reliable, has it's strong points, does some things very well, not mainstream, has strong/passionate cult following, doesn't fair well outside it's intended market space.

Sometimes the passion for bp/w rigs expressed here is... well, you know. I just thank a little balance is appropriate sometimes.

Maybe not so much that backplates lend themselves towards cold tough diving, but that traditional BC's are so inappropriate for it

I dive my backplate and single tank wing in 70+ degree water with a 3mm jumpsuit and no additional weight with an Al80. It's so superior to the regular BC's that I've worn it's ridiculous.