BP/W DM Course??

[Jim Lapenta]

So you're saying muscle memory has no use in diving?

---------- Post added May 10th, 2013 at 06:47 PM ----------



Or u could just use the same equipment and Keep It Simple...

And produce underwater tourists with little to no problem solving abilities or unable to adapt to different configurations. In the case of DM's, they should be able to explain to a student the differences in their rig and clearly explain how another configuration would require a modification of the routine. Because when the new diver suddenly finds themselves in an emergency with a group in different gear is not the time to learn. Getting away from the quick and easy for the instructor is what needs to be done in this industry.

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[Ste Wart]

And produce underwater tourists with little to no problem solving abilities or unable to adapt to different configurations.

I think there is an air of internet bravado in this thread. Not specifically you Jim. But the OW course is 4 OW dives. Maybe the course in ideal circumstances is taught over a week. How much can we expect a student to absorb over that time? Cut that down to the average 4 days. Then exposing multiple configurations becomes confusing rather than beneficial. Teach a student how to dive one rig properly and they should easily recognise differences in other rigs as they have a solid baseline from which to compare.

In the case of DM's, they should be able to explain to a student the differences in their rig and clearly explain how another configuration would require a modification of the routine. Because when the new diver suddenly finds themselves in an emergency with a group in different gear is not the time to learn.

Yes absolutely

Getting away from the quick and easy for the instructor is what needs to be done in this industry.

I don't believe this can be dismissed as quick and easy. I've worked on islands where I was the only dive shop with only maybe a dozen kits; all standard shop rig. Was I disadvantaging students by not showing them different configurations? Or should I focus on the task at hand.... buoyancy!

 

[flots am]

I think there is an air of internet bravado in this thread. Not specifically you Jim. But the OW course is 4 OW dives. Maybe the course in ideal circumstances is taught over a week. How much can we expect a student to absorb over that time? Cut that down to the average 4 days. Then exposing multiple configurations becomes confusing rather than beneficial. Teach a student how to dive one rig properly and they should easily recognise differences in other rigs as they have a solid baseline from which to compare.

Yep. By the end of even a significantly longer class, the students are just becoming competent at using their equipment. I wouldn't be in a hurry to switch them out every couple of classes.

Oddly enough the internet is the only place I've found, where anybody cares what other people dive with. In The Real World, everybody is pretty much OK with whatever they have. The "BP/W religion" seems to be strictly an internet phenomenon.

I have one. And also a sidemount rig and a jacket, and don't give a crap what anybody uses. They're all just bags of air and some straps. It's silly to keep swapping out what students are using because by the end of the class they'll have become poor users of everything instead of competent users of one thing.

flots.

---------- Post added May 10th, 2013 at 08:15 AM ----------

And produce underwater tourists with little to no problem solving abilities or unable to adapt to different configurations

"Underwater Tourist" is what most new divers want to be. What's the problem with that?

flots.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The problem is that the industry cries and whines about how bad business is. When it's been proven that better trained divers are more likely to keep diving. They tend to dive locally and buy more gear.
I understand there are those who only want to be led around by the hand. I choose not to train people for that. And have turned away students with that goal. After trying to talk them into the course I am required by standards to teach. 16 hours in the pool and 16 in the classroom over 6-8 weeks. Figure in five or six OW dives of an average of an hour each over two days and you have what amounts to a 45-50 hour course.
During which I and the students along with any assistants I may be using are in jackets, back inflates, and BPW's. By the end most are choosing plates and wings or BI's and are doing checkouts in their own gear.
So what has happened is by myself and my assistants exposing them to different setups they are better informed, are making decisions on their own, and should they choose the DM route, have a leg up on others who have not been exposed to what they have been.


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[fnfalman]

And why are we talking about OW students when the thread is about DM candidates?

I don't expect much from joe blow fresh from OW 4-dives, but I do expect DM candidates to be a lot more skilled and knowledgeable.

 

[RJP]

So you're saying muscle memory has no use in diving?

Muscle memory is great... once you know what you're doing. Muscle memory is not the same as "mimicry"

 

[randini]

I'm also a DM-C and should finally be doing my last skill next weekend - gear exchange. I use a "standard" rear inflate BC and a "standard" short hose configuration reg (I think they're 22 & 36"). I'm not the least bit worried about getting into a BP-W and 7 ft hose if that's what my buddy will have (note I've never dove this type of configuration either). The predive planning stage is there to iron out the details of the different gear and so that we can make a plan.

My only concern is that I'll end up with somebody drastically different in size to me. Even then, I'm only really concerned about having to cram my size 13 feet into a pair fins several sizes too small. Nonetheless, I'm sure we could even sort that out (e.g. I'll leave my booties off for this one short semi-dive). I'm not worried about getting into a different sized BCD though as I'm sure I could figure out a way to get it to stay on for this one lil dive no matter what it is.

 

[RJP]

My only concern is that I'll end up with somebody drastically different in size to me. Even then, I'm only really concerned about having to cram my size 13 feet into a pair fins several sizes too small. Nonetheless, I'm sure we could even sort that out (e.g. I'll leave my booties off for this one short semi-dive). I'm not worried about getting into a different sized BCD though as I'm sure I could figure out a way to get it to stay on for this one lil dive no matter what it is.

Different size fins is easy. Have your partner start with your fins, you with his and/or both of you start with fins that are big enough for the larger of the two of you. Easier for a size 10 guy to wear 13's than the other way around.

 

[randini]

Size 10'd be doable, uncomfortable, but doable. I'm more worried about getting an 8 or lower without an open heel. But yea I'll figure something out no matter what I'm given.

Good idea about the big size for both of us. I'll bring an extra pair in my size, just in case.

 

[ams511]

What is the point of a gear exchange? Has anyone actually needed to do it underwater for anything other than a certification?