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BP/W banned in DM Course

Discussion in 'Thinking of a Diving Career?' started by randytay, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Dive Shop

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Canonsburg, Pa
    17,217
    9,326
    It depends on what you consider normal and what you consider minimum standards to be. My normal class is 16 hours classrom and 16 hours pool spread out over 6-8 weeks. Normal includes buddy breathing, rescue skills, and things like the bailout and doff and don. These are normal under the standards of my agency. Anything less is abnormal and does not meet agency standards. Plus I add to those and have my own standards students must meet. ie- All basic skills horizontal and in midwater by the end of scuba session 2 while swimming, students do their own weight checks from session 3 on every class, students adjust weights as necessary in pool and on OW checkouts. Normal may be the wrong term to use when asking about classes taught by different instructors from different agencies in different parts of the country. A student of mine who could not manage buoyancy, trim, air shares,etc would not be going to OW.
     
  2. Ste Wart

    Ste Wart Master Instructor

    # of Dives:
    Location: England
    1,613
    573
    The point I was making was that he will be diving his own equipment in the event of an accident, he can't switch to a normal BCD then, can he?
    Just because he found it too hard to do in his own BCD, you let him change? Why didn't you say TS and tell him to get on with it? I had a 2 pax Rescue course a few years back. 2 girls one small one tall and rather large. The large girl did the exit with the little one no problem. Then the same girl suggested I should be the victim for the small girl. I said no, in real life you don't get to choose.
     
  3. Peter Guy

    Peter Guy Divemaster

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Olympia, WA
    4,296
    1,911
    One of the things I find interesting in these discussions is the assumption (by some) that ALL students will wear the same gear during an OW class.

    I (sometimes) teach through my LDS and it is common for the students to NOT all have the same gear (BCD - Reg - Exposure Protection) during the class. So, if the STUDENTS aren't using the same gear, how CAN I, the instructor, wear the same gear as the students?

    The different gear results from:

    a. Student having his own gear from the get-go (not common, but not unknown -- for example, my current class has a student who bought all his gear before class started);

    b. Student buying her own gear during the class (more common and REALLY LIKED by the LDS); and

    c. Some students opting for Dry Suit rather than wet suit for OW dives (VERY common -- about 50% of the students) -- and they use different dry suits.

    As a result, I (and the others in my situation) are forced to deal with different gear throughout both the CW and OW sessions. Adding another gear configuation doesn't make much of a difference.
     
  4. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board Staff Member

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cave Country!
    62,355
    30,938
    Who cares? How does either bear on his credentials/competency for being an OW instructor?

    Some instructors may not want to bother with a long hose. That's their choice.
     
  5. *dave*

    *dave* Instructor, Scuba

    964
    163
    As instructors, don't we have an obligation to our students to hold an informed opinion? What I see and what I've experienced can only be described as ignorance.

    You'll strangle yourself
    You'll confuse the students
    It's for tech only

    I've personally heard these comments made and in each those cases, the person making them had zero experience with the configurations they are misrepresenting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
  6. SubMariner

    SubMariner C'est Moi ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: A Canuck Conch
    6,693
    81
    It appears that you have confused "the customer is always right" with "why one becomes a dive professional". In fact, the term "dive professional" seems to have totally eluded you.

    One can only hope you learn the difference if/when you decide to become a DM.

     
  7. hypertech

    hypertech Divemaster

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location:
    735
    65
    I am a DM and I am quite professional. Disagreeing in front of customers wouldn't be my first choice, but if you are on a boat, possibly small, and the instructor says - hey you sit this one out. I know you are doing this because you like diving and want to dive and nevermind that you paid for this course, gave up your day to come out here, and possibly paid boat fees too, but how about you supervise from the surface and stay out of the water.

    It seems the only opportunity to express your disagreement with this instructor would be on the boat in front of the students. Shame on the instructor for springing this on the DMC so late. If they weren't going to be diving, this should have been discussed before they got on the boat and got all the way to the dive site.
     
  8. BCSGratefulDiver

    BCSGratefulDiver Mental toss flycoon ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
    81,525
    70,795
    Of course it is ... and I agree with choice, as evidenced by my initial response to the OP.

    But let's keep what I said in context, shall we? I was responding to Leabre (post 70) and this comment ...

    The instructors responded that they dissallow unfamiliar gear and configurations because they do not want to be put in a position where students ask questions that the instructor is unqualified to answer appropriately.

    If a scuba instructor is unqualified to answer a simple question about a regulator configuration ... and they're unwilling to take the 10 minutes or so that it would take to find out ... then I would most definitely question their competence to be an instructor.

    That says nothing about choice ... it says everything about their willingness to put in a few minutes of their time to educate themselves adequately to answer a student's question.

    It would definitely make me wonder what else this instructor wasn't willing to put in effort to do ...

    ... Bob (Grateful Diver)
     
  9. BCSGratefulDiver

    BCSGratefulDiver Mental toss flycoon ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
    81,525
    70,795
    I can see your point ... but expressing your disagreement in front of students really wouldn't be appropriate. You do as asked, and discuss it afterward. If you're really unhappy, ask for some recompense for the expense of the boat trip, given that you were acting not as diver, but as crew. But you don't do it in front of students.

    A big part of taking a DM class is learning how to conduct yourself as a professional. Disagreeing with an instructor's judgment in front of students would raise a big red flag with me ... however legitimate you feel your complaint may be.

    ... Bob (Grateful Diver)
     
  10. hypertech

    hypertech Divemaster

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location:
    735
    65
    I'd be more likely to agree if this were a DM the instructor hired. But again it's a DMC paying to be there. If they are unhappy with what is going on they can and should say something about it. They have as much a right to question what their instructor is doung as the other students there lets not forget the DMC us a student. I doubt anyone advocating the DMC needs to shut up and take it would tell an ow student to be quiet and do whatever their instructor says. Ideally the DMC would find a tactful way to deal with the issue, but they need to say something if they are not happy with how their course/mentoring is being done.

    And, if the instructor has done such a poor job managing their expectations that there is no other way to address the issue than right in front of the students, then they shouldnt be surprised at the outcome.

    In such a situation the instructor is more to blame than the DMC. At least that's my opinion.
     

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