Bodies Recovered in School Sink aka Wayne's World, Hudson, FL

[NudeDiver]

There's a pattern of non-cave-trained divers venturing into complex and deep systems that needs to be stopped.

Maybe those who want access to (and to want to KEEP access to) these caves can pitch in to outfit their openings with access grates that are kept locked. Note, I am talking about the opening of the cave itself - not to the property where the cave is located (which is more easily bypassed). To get access, you have to be "in the know". Would be expensive - but if the local cavers worked together on it, the cost each would probably less than a cave dive. Might also do wonders to ward off the local nannies - eh - I mean government - from involving itself and banning diving in the caves altogether.

 

[BabyDuck]

umm...think about that one. would it be locked while we were in it? not a good idea. would it be unlocked while someone's in it? then sneaking in would be easy in many systems with all the traffic they get.

 

[Bob]

I still find it stunning that people just don't think it will happen to them.

Video Page

I find it even more stunning that OW divers continue to dive, and die, in overhead environments such as caverns, caves and wrecks. :crying2: What a shame. almtree: Bob

 

[NudeDiver]

umm...think about that one. would it be locked while we were in it? not a good idea. would it be unlocked while someone's in it? then sneaking in would be easy in many systems with all the traffic they get.

I would think a responsible group would leave one guy at the opening - for safety issues if nothing else. However, if this grate system were adopted, then leaving a guy on top would be required as part of the rules for using the cave. Doesn't seem like a hard problem to solve.

 

[Daedalus]

Maybe those who want access to (and to want to KEEP access to) these caves can pitch in to outfit their openings with access grates that are kept locked. Note, I am talking about the opening of the cave itself - not to the property where the cave is located (which is more easily bypassed). To get access, you have to be "in the know". Would be expensive - but if the local cavers worked together on it, the cost each would probably less than a cave dive.

We don't need to grate openings, unqualified people need to stop diving these dive sites. People on the internet need to stop bragging about their lame ass hero dives to the top of the debris cone at the Nest. People need to stop spending 5000$ on technical cave gear and 0$ on training. For every dollar you spend on gear you better be spending 10$ on gas and gasoline and entry fees getting the experience you need to earn the certifications to properly use that gear. If you are open water stay out of the damn caves. Its that simple.

 

[deepstops]

Maybe those who want access to (and to want to KEEP access to) these caves can pitch in to outfit their openings with access grates that are kept locked. Note, I am talking about the opening of the cave itself - not to the property where the cave is located (which is more easily bypassed). To get access, you have to be "in the know". Would be expensive - but if the local cavers worked together on it, the cost each would probably less than a cave dive.

That could be a good idea for caves where the entrance is small enough for it to be feasible. I believe there are some caves that have gated/grated entrances. I'm pretty sure Blue Hole in Santa Rosa, NM is like this because I've seen lots of posts by cavers that wished it was opened.

Just saying "OW divers must stay out" certainly isn't working.

 

[NudeDiver]

I find it even more stunning that OW divers continue to dive, and die, in overhead environments such as caverns, caves and wrecks.

I don't. Invulnerability syndrome is a well known phenomena. Our entire society is built on the presumption that people take risks (of all kinds), thinking, "ah, <insert bad thing here> will never happen to me."

Unfortunately, events like this are just an invitation for government involvement. Tell me again why, as a motorcycle rider, I have to have a special test and special license and pay a special fee, but someone driving a huge ass 30' RV down the road is not required to have any training of any kind, beyond that required for a basic driver's license? Even a 16 year old with no experience can go out and drive the 30' RV - a massive piece of machinery weighing several tons - but hell, as soon as he wants to get on a motorcycle weighing a few hundred pounds - now he needs a special license, despite the fact that the only one likely to be injured with his activities is himself, while the RV driver can take out everyone else on the road. Hint: you can bet money that the RV lobby, AARP, and others are on guard and actively fight against RV licensing proposals.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the nannies - eh - I mean government do-gooders - still have not involved themselves in "diving licenses". I think it's just a matter of time ):

 

[NudeDiver]

If you are open water stay out of the damn caves. Its that simple.

Wishful thinking and a box of chocolates will leave you with a box of chocolates.

Bottom line: if people can access the cave, people will continue diving in it, regardless of qualifications, unless you are able to prevent them from doing so.

 

[BabyDuck]

I would think a responsible group would leave one guy at the opening - for safety issues if nothing else. However, if this grate system were adopted, then leaving a guy on top would be required as part of the rules for using the cave. Doesn't seem like a hard problem to solve.

so, one team allowed per system at a time? and this person on top would stop other teams and challenge them? would s/he be armed? they'd all fling c cards at 50 paces?

i'm with bob. just stay out if you're not qualified to go in.

 

[NudeDiver]

I'm pretty sure Blue Hole in Santa Rosa, NM is like this because I've seen lots of posts by cavers that wished it was opened.

Yeah, at the bottom, where it leads into the underground, it is. When I was there, I was told that they put that grate in after some guy disappeared and was found a few hundred miles away.

Even for caves with very large openings, you could block them off with grates - it just gets more expensive. My theory is that if people (land owners / cave clubs) do not solve this problem, government nannies will solve the problem and leave the divers quite unsatisfied with the results.