Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

[Mike1967]

It falls in to the catagory as smoking. if you smoke you use more air and that air belongs to the team.

And what if there's a smoker that has a lower SAC than you, is that OK?

 

[ToneNQ]

I'd agree getting up the ladder with bottom gas, BM or SM, is the baseline. If you cannot that is fine, but its requiring additional support that the boat may not be able to provide. The idea of climbing a ladder with double 12s and a 7L stage; its hardly impossible but for every dive it is asking for trouble.

The key definition is reasonable assistance, and it's entirely a judgement call. A charter caters their offering to their boat design and local market. Divers that regularly require extra support should be able to get it, but surely its fair to request those arrangements in advance so the Skipper can manage the day's schedule and staff the boat sufficiently, and agree any surcharges with the customer.

 

[ofg-1]

And what if there's a smoker that has a lower SAC than you, is that OK?

(rant begins)
NO! Nothing about smoking is OK. Just like us old fat guys know, nothing about being obese is OK. Nothing about being a meth head is OK. Nothing about drinking yourself to death is OK. Trying to convince yourself that since you have a good SAC rate its fine is like me trying to convince myself that pasta is fine. I know better and so do the smokers.
(rant ends)

 

[markmud]

Here is a typical day boat The Boat
And here a couple of liveaboards which are over 100 tons. MV Valhalla liveaboard dive boat - Orkney and Shetland Charters
And a hybrid not actually a liveaboard Mv Huskyan with accommodation on land.

The first is £600/day, the others about £8k/week upwards depending on where they are, but including accommodation.

I think they are too cheap but divers are not known for spending.

Hi Ken,

OK, your UK dive vessels are setting the standard for this issue. The US is behind the curve IMHO. Can you describe the demographics, or legal environment, or stakeholder involvement, for your UK diving community? Why the lifts and gear cranes?

Do your clubs foster a higher level of certification and experience; therefore, more divers need help because they are diving with more gear?

Where I dive, I am seeing what appears to be a "bluing" ("blue hair", aka grey hair) of the dive community. There are youngsters in our midst, but it seems that the base is us old folks. Are most of your UK divers old folks like me?

Or, is most of your diving tech oriented? For whatever reason. Is there lots of interest in tech diving or are there no recreational dive site opportunities (relatively speaking, of course)?

Or, are you "old English" just forward thinkers?

Or, have there been lawsuits regarding injuries on boats?

Why is there a focus on lifts and gear cranes? The cited dive vessel operators consider their lifts and gear cranes as selling points.

By looking at your citations, the US dive-op industry is behind the curve!

cheers,
m²V2

 

[Mike1967]

Trying to convince yourself that since you have a good SAC rate its fine

Settle petal, I mean would he dive with that person not is smoking ok.

 

[scubadada]

This thread is a good read, I like today's post. Thanks @Manatee Diver
Hopping my way to full cave...

 

[Gareth J]

Hi Ken,

OK, your UK dive vessels are setting the standard for this issue. The US is behind the curve IMHO. Can you describe the demographics, or legal environment, or stakeholder involvement, for your UK diving community? Why the lifts and gear cranes?

Do your clubs foster a higher level of certification and experience; therefore, more divers need help because they are diving with more gear?

Where I dive, I am seeing what appears to be a "bluing" ("blue hair", aka grey hair) of the dive community. There are youngsters in our midst, but it seems that the base is us old folks. Are most of your UK divers old folks like me?

Or, is most of your diving tech oriented? For whatever reason. Is there lots of interest in tech diving or are there no recreational dive site opportunities (relatively speaking, of course)?

Or, are you "old English" just forward thinkers?

Or, have there been lawsuits regarding injuries on boats?

Why is there a focus on lifts and gear cranes? The cited dive vessel operators consider their lifts and gear cranes as selling points.

By looking at your citations, the US dive-op industry is behind the curve!

cheers,
m²V2

I would suggest a higher percentage of UK divers do decompression dives. The UK diver training agencies include decompression diving in the second level qualification (first level equivalent to PADI OW).

Those that dive in the UK are much more likely to dive 12 months of the year, wear drysuits. Dive with some form of independent bailout (pony, twinset etc).

UK boats have a maximum of 12 divers on board, it is exceptional to have a crew or DM, unless it is a 'liveaboard' (Crew = Cook). When my club get on a boat there will be at least 1 CCR , and 7 twinsets, the rest are probably single with pony. The ratio changes when we have restricted places for newer divers. Then its more likely 50:50 singles to others.

Most UK boats are catering for decompression dives, twinsets/CCR and probably accelerated decompression.
The RHIB's are more likely to be carrying single cylinder divers. (Not hard and fast rule).

UK divers will generally dive in conditions up to and including a force 4. (If we didn't, we wouldn't dive).

These days we expect a minimum level of equipment, other than SOLAS etc. We expect O2 kits, (although we carry our own), lifts, heads, and a hot cuppa. If there is no hot cuppa we are not putting to sea!!!!! [1]



[1] Even the British Army won't fight if there is no chance of a hot cuppa. Our tanks and APC's have kettles. You'll even find a squaddie in a fox hole making a brew in the middle of a fire fight.
See the above link for proper military instruction on making tea! (Facebook)

 

[boulderjohn]

if you cant get you and your gear out then how can you deal with a rescue and get your buddy out also. It falls in to the catagory as smoking.

There is a problem with blanket policies.

In a recent post rjack321 pointed out that not all tech dives are the same. An AN/DP dive has pretty minimal equipment. If I return from a deep trimix dive with steel doubles, 2 AL 80s, and an AL40, I will be unable to climb the ladder with my gear. Does that mean I will not be allowed to dive under a boat's policy?

So the explanation for such a policy is that if I can't climb a ladder with full tech gear then I will not be fit enough to rescue someone at the surface? Please explain how my ability to climb a ladder with full gear has anything to do with my rescue of another diver at the surface. Please describe the scenario. Am I supposed to be able to climb a ladder with full tech gear while carrying another diver with full tech gear? Will the crew of the boat be standing by saying, "Nope, you need to do this yourself, and don't you dare think about taking your equipment or the victim's equipment off in the water, the way they teach you to do it in the rescue class you passed years ago!"

 

[boulderjohn]

Most of my tech diving is done in a very deep sinkhole, not a boat. We access it by walking down a short flight of stairs to a small landing a little below water level. We all clip off our deco bottles on lines at the bottom of the stairs and leave them there waiting for us long before the dive. We then walk down the stairs, put on our fins, and clip on our deco bottles. When we are done with the dive, we clip off the bottles, take off our fins, and climb out. We get out of our doubles and come back for the deco bottles later, sometimes much later. None of us are stupid enough to climb the stairs, up or down, while carrying all our equipment.

Now, boats are a little different, and you have to adapt your procedures to that difference, but that should not require you to do something stupid.

 

[shoredivr]

Most of my tech diving is done in a very deep sinkhole, not a boat. We access it by walking down a short flight of stairs to a small landing a little below water level. We all clip off our deco bottles on lines at the bottom of the stairs and leave them there waiting for us long before the dive. We then walk down the stairs, put on our fins, and clip on our deco bottles. When we are done with the dive, we clip off the bottles, take off our fins, and climb out. We get out of our doubles and come back for the doubles later, sometimes much later. None of us are stupid enough to climb the stairs, up or down, while carrying all our equipment.

Now, boats are a little different, and you have to adapt your procedures to that difference, but that should not require you to do something stupid.

Cannot like this enough, Boulderjohn.