Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

[Wookie]

Sharkwater 2 is another excellent example of a diver being “sherpa’d” through the system. Divers need to plan their dives and have a certain amount of self reliant abilities. That does not necessarily mean that they can’t be helped back on the boat.

 

[RyanT]

Although, sometimes my mind still thinks I'm a 21 year old 2nd Battalion Recon Marine my body says otherwise.

Yeah, it really sucks. I used to hop 6' fences in a single bound....those days are long gone, but my brain hasn't yet figured it out! I still occasionally have to remind myself to slow down so I don't hurt myself.

I still have that mentality, and will gladly help anyone that needs it. All you really need to do is......................................................................................................................................be a human.

I use the term "be a human" a lot. It seems like it should be a really low bar, but increasingly it seems that it's not!

 

[JBFG]

A little late to the party here, the military has decided I need to move to a different base/post so pretty busy and I didn’t read the complete thread.
This shocks me:
“if you are truly unable to get yourself back onto the boat with all of your equipment on than youshouldn’t be diving off of that boat on that day.”

Tec divers are know to need help to get going. I’d love to see anyone try to climb up back on a boat with twin doubles and 4 deco tanks, plus a DPV. Please show me how it’s done!
Heck the big tec dives have tec support team(s) in water. Why is out of water so difficult to conceive?

I must admit I only did 1 Tec dive off a boat And the crew was more than happy to pick my deco tanks from me at the surface.
I guess not all boats are made the same.

 

[lermontov]

Into Thin Air by Krakauer is illustrative of what can happen when self-reliance and a true apprenticeship attitude are ignored in dangerous environments, especially when money is involved. Sometimes a line needs to be drawn, and it’s not always clear where.

Ask yourself: if someone demonstrates a clear risk to you as a dive business owner, are you willing to bet your boat / business / livelihood on that person performing under stress? Even further, to take deliberate steps (Sherpa assistance) to enable that risk to continue?

This question isn’t unique to diving. I’ve watched similar scenarios play out in aviation, skydiving, and whitewater instruction and guiding. The best answer I’ve seen to whether or not a “Sherpa” option should be available is maybe. It’s a judgment call, which is unsatisfying to the box-checkers who want black or white answers.

There are some great responses in this thread that indicate everything from valet diving to solo diving is possible for tech dives from boats. It’s all good, in the right circumstances.

Lance

yes some salient points- theres usually a lot of background information that goes into the boat owners decision that were not always privy to. Im sure we all know some dive operator that cringe when certain divers join a trip

 

[rjack321]

A little late to the party here, the military has decided I need to move to a different base/post so pretty busy and I didn’t read the complete thread.
This shocks me:
“if you are truly unable to get yourself back onto the boat with all of your equipment on than youshouldn’t be diving off of that boat on that day.”

Tec divers are know to need help to get going. I’d love to see anyone try to climb up back on a boat with twin doubles and 4 deco tanks, plus a DPV. Please show me how it’s done!
Heck the big tec dives have tec support team(s) in water. Why is out of water so difficult to conceive?

I must admit I only did 1 Tec dive off a boat And the crew was more than happy to pick my deco tanks from me at the surface.
I guess not all boats are made the same.

Yea but what if double 80s and an al40 is "too much" and the diver can't get up the ladder or is at dire risk of falling just going from the ladder to the bench and back? Not every tech dive is extreme, 30mins at 120ft with 15mins of deco is an entry level tech dive and I would expect participants to be able to walk without assistance. Yes they may end up getting help but the crew may be busy with another diver or a problem. Having a diver about who just bounces from one problem to another is risky and dangerous

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Yeah, it really sucks. I used to hop 6' fences in a single bound....those days are long gone, but my brain hasn't yet figured it out! I still occasionally have to remind myself to slow down so I don't hurt myself.



I use the term "be a human" a lot. It seems like it should be a really low bar, but increasingly it seems that it's not!

I feel your pain. At my age, it isn't necessarily the fence hoping that worries me as what happens when I reach the other side.

I'm now convinced gravitational pull is proportionate to age.

 

[KenGordon]

600 a day per diver seems a little steep.

The boats take 12...

 

[NAM001]

Hi
I was reading a thread about the incompatibility between a passionate woman learning tech diving and a boat which have a policy of not helping anyone to come back on board. I am sure you know the reference.
I don't understand why people think you should be able to board back a boat on your own in order to be "allowed" to tech dive.
For a lot of people, including boat operators, a dive boat is a taxi boat which take you to the dive site and back and that is it: the dive starts on the boat and ends when you are back sitting on the desk having done everything in between on your own.
We have also a lot of threads about DCS and we all know the dive is not yet over even when you are back on the shore as your body is still desaturating. One main point about saturation is to avoid extra useless hardwork.
So why do people make a condition of being able to climb a ladder with all your stuff in order to be able to techdive?
It is not safe. Fullstop!
People who realy define themselves as "techdiver" should refuse to be defined as their capability to manage weight above water. If a diver is able to do what (s)he needs to do underwater, why should we care about his/her strengh capacity of climbing back a ladder.
There are solutions ro manage weight and
a diving boat, should take you to the dive side, help you, as needed, to splash and help you, again as nedded, to go back to the desk using crew or an elevator or whatever.
When you cave dive and you need to go through a dry passage before you can dive, don't people use sherpa and team mates.
Don't even people use a cart or whatever to take their gear.at water edge?
Then, a real diving boat should give you the option of being "sherpaed" in and out of the site.
What do you think?

Its simple..... it is a physical fitness thing. If you are fit you can handle everything your self. now if you are a guy and you can crawl out with 100+ pounds on your shoulders then if gender is to be left out of the equation , they can do it also. Im not supporting it . just explaining it. if you cant get you and your gear out then how can you deal with a rescue and get your buddy out also. It falls in to the catagory as smoking. if you smoke you use more air and that air belongs to the team. if you are not strong as the rest you are the weak link. unfortunately tech diving is not a SPECIAL FORCES OPERATION. I dont think that attitude is as prevelant as that boat represents. However a lot of tech divers want no touching by the crew of thier person or gear. That concept may be what drove that boat to act as it did.

 

[Diving Dubai]

“if you are truly unable to get yourself back onto the boat with all of your equipment on than youshouldn’t be diving off of that boat on that day.”

Tec divers are know to need help to get going. I’d love to see anyone try to climb up back on a boat with twin doubles and 4 deco tanks, plus a DPV. Please show me how it’s done!

I think you are missing the point, and taking things too literally.

No-one has said that a diver in Tec rig needs to climb aboard with their full kit strapped on. Because that would be nonsense.

No one has said that help shouldn't be offered to assist. It is the level of assistance required which has triggered the debate.

The diver should be able to attach and remove all their equipment by themselves, they should be able to pass it to the crew and assist if need be with whatever method is used for retrieving the gear. and then be able to get themselves aboard (climbing the ladder) unassisted.

If you are in a situation where a diver has to have someone else attach their gear or remove their cylinders in the water because they can't manage their clips etc and thus needing the undivided attention of the crew. Then they become a liability.

Yes there is a half way meeting point, where their mobility issues require assistance, but this also requires the diver to make changes to their gear and procedures to meet halfway.

I have a really good friend, who is fearless, and wants to do all the dives. There came a point where it required others to clip on her deco/pony, and to provide much more than helpful assistance - almost putting the gear on her and removing it from her. She also needed assistance to get her up a ladder (onto a small 10 seater "6pax")

For the occasional dive in calm conditions this is no problem, but when conditions (especially where we dive) are less than ideal then not only does she slow the diving down, she puts herself and others at risk.

Hence on 50% of trips she's not allowed.

Or another way, all of the dives we do require a high level of competence with experience in currents. If we were to take a newly qualified diver without such experience we'd have to modify the schedule to suit the "weakest link" So we don't.

 

[wstorms]

No-one has said that a diver in Tec rig needs to climb aboard with theri full kit strapped on. Because that would be nonsense.

Actually I think that's exactly what started the discussion. Limits and ambitions from diver / instructor / dive operator / boat captain etc are all valid, even when they are conflicting. The sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. Reasonable for all involved. Most of the times, finding that sweet spot is easy, 99% of the dives are done without even thinking about it. Sometimes however, all the stars need to line up to make it happen. When it does, that's great. When it doesn't work out, that is fine. Dive another day.
The issue is when a simple black / white statement becomes dogma. "you will most certainly die if you do / do not carry a snorkel" arguments are too simplistic, and indicate that a certain, specific thing hasn't been thought trough sufficiently. One blanket statement like that is insufficient to paint the entire picture, so let's not get hung up in statements like that too much.
And if the diver / captain / instructor / agency / operator /whoever does issue blanket statements, know that it is an exclusive policy. If you are ok with that, adapt, adjust or simply back out if you are not ok with it. Just think stuff trough before jumping to conclusions. (as a general statement, not ment as a direct reply to @Diving Dubai )