Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

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Hi Ken,

OK, your UK dive vessels are setting the standard for this issue. The US is behind the curve IMHO. Can you describe the demographics, or legal environment, or stakeholder involvement, for your UK diving community? Why the lifts and gear cranes?

Do your clubs foster a higher level of certification and experience; therefore, more divers need help because they are diving with more gear?

Where I dive, I am seeing what appears to be a "bluing" ("blue hair", aka grey hair) of the dive community. There are youngsters in our midst, but it seems that the base is us old folks. Are most of your UK divers old folks like me?

Or, is most of your diving tech oriented? For whatever reason. Is there lots of interest in tech diving or are there no recreational dive site opportunities (relatively speaking, of course)?

Or, are you "old English" just forward thinkers?

Or, have there been lawsuits regarding injuries on boats?

Why is there a focus on lifts and gear cranes? The cited dive vessel operators consider their lifts and gear cranes as selling points.

By looking at your citations, the US dive-op industry is behind the curve!

cheers,
m²V2
U.K. diving tends to be either quite young people learning while at university or significantly older, sometimes ‘born again’ divers. Family and finance distract. Many people, maybe 40 to 50%, learn in self sufficient clubs. Those clubs either have their own RHIBs or book day whole boat charters. Most clubs will also run trips abroad or to places like Scapa Flow.

Older divers are often relatively well off and like the toys and like to use the toys. On Friday I was at an inland site and there were as many CCRs as singles.

There has been one lawsuit, that I know about, involving an injured diver. Generally I think the insurance people apply appropriate pressure, nothing terrible, diving here is cheaper than in Seattle, for example.

If you look at the dive sites mentioned on the web sites of the boats I linked to, many, maybe most, are deeper than 30m and best done as deco dives. Deco diving is normal. Not every one all the time, but not worthy of comment.

Diving here is quite hard, too hard for many who decide to only dive on holiday. Anything that makes it easier helps. That can make an 80m trimix dive possible or allow a 75 year old to dive, or allow a less than athletic person to dive when getting up a ladder would be too much or just really unpleasant and embarrassing.

There are no DMs. None. The crew does not get in the water unless the boss gives them a day off, maybe to get a lesson from a customer. Boats are not generally run by shops.

Why are there lifts? Because once someone had a lift they had an advantage. Then every boat had to have one.

In my opinion the most important thing is that the divers are organised on their own account. If a skipper is good then they get repeat business because the clubs, independent instructors and shop clubs remember. Individuals don’t generally dive enough to build that insight.
 
Rec or Tec ... if you can’t get yourself and your gear back on the boat you shouldn’t be diving off that boat on that day. Otherwise it’s unsafe for yourself and others. If you can’t do it at all you shouldn’t be boat diving. That may seem harsh but no one HAS to dive. It’s a hobby and if you can’t do it self-sufficiently than you need to pick a different hobby.
By that logic, then adaptive diving should not be a thing.
 
By that logic, then adaptive diving should not be a thing.
Applying that logic to all activities, people with handicaps should just stay inside.

I once met an avid diver who on land was confined to a wheelchair. Diving was a real blessing for him.
 
I'd agree getting up the ladder with bottom gas, BM or SM, is the baseline. If you cannot that is fine, but its requiring additional support that the boat may not be able to provide. The idea of climbing a ladder with double 12s and a 7L stage; its hardly impossible but for every dive it is asking for trouble.

The key definition is reasonable assistance, and it's entirely a judgement call. A charter caters their offering to their boat design and local market. Divers that regularly require extra support should be able to get it, but surely its fair to request those arrangements in advance so the Skipper can manage the day's schedule and staff the boat sufficiently, and agree any surcharges with the customer.

You are correct it all matters why the reason and who is imposing it. yes reasonable is the real governing aspect.
 
There is a problem with blanket policies.

In a recent post rjack321 pointed out that not all tech dives are the same. An AN/DP dive has pretty minimal equipment. If I return from a deep trimix dive with steel doubles, 2 AL 80s, and an AL40, I will be unable to climb the ladder with my gear. Does that mean I will not be allowed to dive under a boat's policy?

So the explanation for such a policy is that if I can't climb a ladder with full tech gear then I will not be fit enough to rescue someone at the surface? Please explain how my ability to climb a ladder with full gear has anything to do with my rescue of another diver at the surface. Please describe the scenario. Am I supposed to be able to climb a ladder with full tech gear while carrying another diver with full tech gear? Will the crew of the boat be standing by saying, "Nope, you need to do this yourself, and don't you dare think about taking your equipment or the victim's equipment off in the water, the way they teach you to do it in the rescue class you passed years ago!"
I am not saying that is my belief at all. It is the belief one gets depending on who you get it from. there are some very rigid DIR folks around that still believe if you can not be totally independant you are a risk to a team. personally I dont buy it. I have been tech rigged up on an occasion and the weight of the gear was more load than the boat ladder could handle. Some things get carried to the extreem when it really is not neccessary.
 
Why are there lifts? Because once someone had a lift they had an advantage. Then every boat had to have one.

In my opinion the most important thing is that the divers are organised on their own account. If a skipper is good then they get repeat business because the clubs, independent instructors and shop clubs remember. Individuals don’t generally dive enough to build that insight.

Two illustrations of good skippers and repeat business.

When I first joined my club, one of the more experienced divers booked a trip with a new skipper.
The skipper was excellent, we immediately rebooked for the following year, rolling the 'deposit' forward.
The business expanded, the boats got better. Some years later, I took on making the bookings, and we continued to roll the deposits forward.
There was a change in ownership, and we continued to roll the booking forward. The new owner was more businesslike, moving from a beer glass full of cash (where our original deposit went), to a more formalised computerised booking facility.
Eventually, the new owner came to me, when I was booking the next 12 months of diving. She asked if I new how much the original deposit had been, I had no idea. Her current policy was 30% of the full trip. She suggested I paid 70% of the trip costs, and we would assume that the deposit had been redeemed, after the next trip. We where better off, she kept a repeat customer and the good will. More importantly, she removed a credit of indeterminate value, and the complications relating to our bookings. We continued to use her for some considerable time.

The C-19 virus has wrecked this years dive trips, and put pressure on charter business.
I have rebooked two different skippers for 2021, and 2022, partly to support the skippers, partly so I have diving next year. Our treasurer, confirmed the bookings. When she asked one of the skippers how much deposit we need to pay him, his comment, you guys haven't paid a deposit in years, why start now?
In truth, if we cancelled, he would fill the space within a few days with ease. Our problem, is making sure we get in early enough to book a trip in the first place!

P.S. He has a lift, tea, Cornish pasties, scones, Jam and clotted cream. The divings pretty good to.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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