Best way to learn to service regulators?

[herman]

If you are considering any flow through piston (MK-5/10) you should add a bullet tool. It's the one "necessary" tool for those regs.
IMO,unless you plan to use high O2 concentrations, above 36% nitrox, Christolube is an expensive and unnecessary choice for a lube. The old standard, Dow 111 silicone is much less expensive and a superior lube for "normal" applications.

 

[rsingler]

Yes, the "Basic Kit" is intended for the class only.
It is missing critical tools for a wide variety of regs, which should be determined individually, as suggested above.
With a generic class of students, some of whom may be servicing their deco stage reg, an oxygen-safe lube is the only one I can universally recommend, notwithstanding silicone's advantages. Using Christolube saves me from the Tribolube/Christolube argument until later in the class (I use T-71).
I agree with @Centrals regarding the danger of steel picks. That said, try removing a star retainer from a yoke with a thin brass pick. And review my thread on "How to Use a Double Hook Pick" before you try to spear a Mk5 HP oring with a straight brass pick. There are a few, but important roles for a steel pick IF you understand the dangers.
Context is always important, and "Basic Kit" doesn't mean the same thing outside the Seminar. But thanks for your interest!

 

[SlugLife]

I was a little too tired to write a full reply earlier.

For the MK5 or MK10, you'll want...

• A tool which helps you insert the o-ring in the center. @herman Makes a couple inexpensive specialty tools which have great reviews. Scuba Tools has this product: Scubapro Mk5/Mk10 O'ring Tool Kit which seems to do the job (not sure how it compares to herman's).
• Scubapro Multi-Tool, Brass Chrome You'll need this tool, or appropriate pin-spanners.
  
• Scubapro Piston Bullet, Brass And a piston bullet.
  
• Brass o-ring picks.
• Silicon Grease or something like it.
• Compact IP Gauge (PSI and BAR) - An IP gauge
  
• First Stage Body Holding Tool - Something to hold the first stage while you work on it. This threads into the high & low pressure ports. This one Lp / Hp Threaded Holding Tool , Piranha Dive Shop | is less expensive, but is circular, and can slide in the vice.
  
• Slotted 2nd Stage Adjustment Tool , Piranha Dive Shop | - An inline adjustment tool is useful if you service a lot of 2nd stages. However, to be honest, it's not really needed for servicing your own equipment.

For 2nd-stages, I haven't needed any special tools yet. At least for the Scubapro G250, G200, S550, and random octos.

Now, I'd actually buy your 2nd stage before buying any specialty tools. Some of the above tools might be completely irrelevant if you happen to go with a different model or different brand.

Yes, the "Basic Kit" is intended for the class only.
It is missing critical tools for a wide variety of regs, which should be determined individually, as suggested above.
With a generic class of students, some of whom may be servicing their deco stage reg, an oxygen-safe lube is the only one I can universally recommend, notwithstanding silicone's advantages. Using Christolube saves me from the Tribolube/Christolube argument until later in the class (I use T-71).
I agree with @Centrals regarding the danger of steel picks. That said, try removing a star retainer from a yoke with a thin brass pick. And review my thread on "How to Use a Double Hook Pick" before you try to spear a Mk5 HP oring with a straight brass pick. There are a few, but important roles for a steel pick IF you understand the dangers.
Context is always important, and "Basic Kit" doesn't mean the same thing outside the Seminar. But thanks for your interest!

How to use a Double Hook Pick

 

[halocline]

NO steel pick, brass only.

I use steel picks all the time, have done so for years. I'm just careful with them. The scubatools double hook o-ring pick is great for getting o-rings out of tricky spots. For really tricky spots like the high pressure o-ring on the MK5/10, I use the double hook pick and bury the tip of the pick in the o-ring before pulling it out. This obviously destroys the o-ring, but you're there to replace it and it prevents any possibility of scratching the journal or surrounding area.

 

[lowwall]

Thank you for all the helpful informative replies. I like this community!

I think I will get that book "Regulator Savy"

Regulator Savvy (Spiral Bound)

And the basic tool kit the rsingler recommends.

Scuba Tools - NapaScuba Regulator Tool Kit

....

I went through rsingler's class using a MK5 I bought off ebay for $45. Hold off on ordering the tools until you choose the regs and note that the class kit may not be the best choices for you. I'll comment on the specific tools in the class kit:

16-075-500 Small Face Spanner $22.50 - this is recommended for the class because it is universal, but you may have options depending on your reg. For example, the function of this tool is included on the (spendy) ScubaPro Multi-Tool or @herman sells a version that fits ScubaPro Mark 5 and 10 for $5.*
10-102-100 Brass Picks $15.25 - definitely get these
10-125-400 Steel Picks Set $10.25 - don't bother, if you don't have steel picks on your bench you won't be tempted to use them and end up scratching something
15-708-111 Christolube MCG-111 0.8oz syringe $16.75 - the applicator is nice, but you can use less expensive alternatives if you aren't planning on servicing to O2 clean standards
20-611-200 Brut Orifice Tool $13.25 - you will need something to perform this function, but this one may not work with your specific reg
12-100-500 Schrader Valve Tool $6.50 - for servicing LPI (quick detach) hoses, not regs
20-300-400 BCD hose o-ring tool $14.50 - also for servicing LPI hoses

Tools that I would recommend that aren't on your list:

- IP gauge - absolutely vital for testing, adjusting and troubleshooting
- a vise
- vise holders - these are cylinders (sometimes with machined flats) with threaded ends that screw into the LP and HP ports and then get placed in the vise. this spares the reg body from having to go into the vise
- something to remove the yoke nut, this will vary from reg to reg
- additional o'ring picks - these will cover pretty much everything you might need (along with the 10-102-100 Brass Picks in the kit list): Nylon plastic Pick and O'ring Pick Set, 5 Pcs. & Storage Tube
- wood dowels of various diameters, cut to around 5" long - these were the most used "tools" along with the brass picks
- o-ring bullets or slipovers - brass or plastic tools that let you slide an o-ring over threads so you can install it without damage
- hook spanner or similar to open up the first stage body
- whatever you need to take apart and adjust the second stage demand valve setup, the right poppet/orifice tool, probably either a 1/4" or 5.5mm nut driver, ???. If you are willing to splurge for one regulator tool, this one will make your life a lot easier: Dual Drive Inline Adjusting Tool . You don't need the optional gauge.

You can look at the tools I ended up using on the regulator class thread here: Regulator Service Technician Training - Unrestricted

* herman's catalog of tools and ordering info can be found on the Vintage Double Hose site at Store | Vintage Double Hose . It's confusing because they aren't sold through the site. I think it's just there as a favor since most of the tools were built to ease work on vintage regulators. @herman - Is that correct?

 

[Joris Vd]

I am an avid mk5 / mk10 diver.

I know in theory they are not fit for 100% O2, but I O2 cleaned my mk10's and use them with up to 80% oxygen on my stages. I have disassembled them many times and have yet to see either increased degradation or soot because of compression fire.

The tools i use are super basic but help alot in my opinion.
cheap brass o-ring picks:

I use a bullet tool to not cut the piston or o-ring as mentioned above.

Started with an IP-gauge, but upgraded that to an inline adjustment tool.

An adjustable pin spanner wrench

A first stage holder or a scuba hose which you can clamp between a vise.

A cheap way to remove and adjust the turret is getting a hollow socket wrench

(these for 8 euros in a Belgian hardware store)

and a cheap pin spanner for the hp-seat

If you don't wanna invest in the inline adjustment tool, get an ip gauge and a screwdriver + bucket of water.
It takes more time but is alot cheaper. Worked for me for the first four years of servicing. But damn I would never go back since you can find these inline adjustment tools very cheaply sometimes.

The main thing that i could NOT live without is the internal o-ring tools.

It's just three plastic or pom pieces that are the best way to put a new o-ring without having to fiddle too much.

For me the easiest way to get started was servicing an old mk2+108
then I went for an mk5 + 109
then mk10+ 109

You'll notice if you combine the above tools with a set of allen keys

and then the next step for a first diaphragm reg I'd suggest something like the apeks ds4. (I specifically don't suggest the DST because I see sooooo many damaged DST's because people use wrong sized pin spanners).

One thing that has been mentioned above, but is somewhat of an unpopular opinion nowadays is :
Don't use Christolube unless you need O2 safe regulators. I feel that greasy oldschool silicone just works sooo much better and doesn't dry/crust up ever.

 

[lowwall]

Thank you for all the helpful informative replies. I like this community!

You are getting replies from some of the most knowledgeable people in the hobby in herman, rsingler, couv and halocline. And perhaps the rest, I just don't know them as well.

 

[Brant Emery]

It has been over 40 years since I worked on regulators, but the cost of yearly service is insane. Reading this gives me the kick in the pants to start doing my own again.
Thanks everyone for sharing.

 

[abnfrog]

we teach both the d6 and the hog classes , and i bought the entire dacour stock from a dive shop going out of business several years ago so we also have a lot of dacor kits . the one reg we have no kits for is the eunduro

 

[markmud]

I'm looking on learning how to service my own regulators.

Do it! Go for it!

I recommend anyone with mechanical aptitude, and some mechanical experience, to go for it. If not for the need for special tools, the regulators that I have dived into aren't very complicated. Scuba Tools Regulator Savvy book is very good. But I was a little bored while reading it as there was nothing new or exciting in what I was reading. I was studying basic mechanical devices.

Rebuilding a rear axle on a modern bike with the cassette included in the rebuild is no more and no less complicated. One of @rsingler 's students wrote that after he had completed Rob's class he decided to fix his kitchen faucet. A person who can tear down and successfully repair a modern kitchen faucet can surely learn how to work on SCUBA regs.

I would have been servicing my regs long ago had the service kits been available from the manufacturer to the public. Had regs been designed to use common tools, I would have been performing the work long ago. Instead, I have had to finish the job that I paid good money for "on the fly" as newly serviced regs would have a leak or and an IP adjustment issue (50% of the time). Namely, the second stages free flowed.

If you are willing to splurge for one regulator tool, this one will make your life a lot easier: Dual Drive Inline Adjusting Tool

I agree with lowwall on the in-line adjusting tool. Splurge and get one. I was adjusting the second stage with a bucket of water and a screwdriver/hex key on the fly in some far off land until I started to check it at home before we travelled. The inline adjusting tool makes it so easy!
This one is inexpensive and is working fine for me: Second Stage In-Line Adjusting Tool w/IP Gauge | Dive Gear Express®

I am not an expert like the people who have posted on your thread. @rsingler is the real deal and I guarantee you his class is worth the money and time.

Why didn't I do this years ago?

cheers,
markm