Best agency for learning Tech diving - criteria given - honest :)

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IIRC the problem with BSAC's official position on "hog-looping" was that the people who wrote that stance had zero training experience with a long hose that runs under a can light at the right hip, across the chest to the left shoulder, behind the neck and into the mouth from the right side, and secondary backup bungeed around the neck.

I remember reading a memo from the higher up folks at BSAC....it's somewhere here on SB....in which they were certain "hog-looping" would strangle the donor, and a dive to demonstrate how it actually worked was being organized. I'm certain that training exercise never occurred, because if it had, they would've seen their fears were baseless.

Dalec's tale of a stuffed longhose getting trapped points out to me that BSAC's insistence on stuffing the long hose is not the best choice. That coupled with the inability to re-stow the longhose if stuffed, when other posters have made clear why you'd want to do so, makes BSAC's position untenable to me. And the whole "we teach secondary donate not primary take" has always seemed like a red herring tacked on afterwards to justify their position. If you will pardon my mixed metaphor.

The idea that people were teaching themselves incorrectly how to use a long hose from the internet is easily remedied by *teaching them how to do it properly in a class*.

BSAC has much to recommend it but their stance on "hog-looping" is antiquated and out of step with other training agencies. Pity.
 
When I learned to cave dive in 1994, my instructor taught me to stuff the long hose along the right side cylinder and breathe from the short hose. One night a buddy and I were diving in a particularly tight area of passage and my long hose was pulled loose. We couldn't stuff it back in in the middle of the passage (low bedding plane with mud floor), and the only thing I could do was "hog loop" it.

I've been diving that way ever since..
 
IIRC the problem with BSAC's official position on "hog-looping" was that the people who wrote that stance had zero training experience with a long hose that runs under a can light at the right hip, across the chest to the left shoulder, behind the neck and into the mouth from the right side, and secondary backup bungeed around the neck.

I remember reading a memo from the higher up folks at BSAC....it's somewhere here on SB....in which they were certain "hog-looping" would strangle the donor, and a dive to demonstrate how it actually worked was being organized. I'm certain that training exercise never occurred, because if it had, they would've seen their fears were baseless.

Here is a site on the topic. It includes the full BSAC statement.

Hog looping – misinformation about the Hogarthian configuration | Deep-Sea Sherpa
 
You usually seems to be a proper and correct person. Why not post to the actual current document? There was considerable fuss which lead to 'clarification'.

Clarification statement on Alternative Supply training and going diving - British Sub-Aqua Club

And

AS Training - Frequently Asked Questions - British Sub-Aqua Club

Rather than repeat the arguments again you could read the last instalment of this row here:

BSAC Mixed Gas/Hog Loop Alternatives

I think there are 504 posts, the first one saying 'I don't want to start another BSAC hog looping row'.

There are a number of interesting posts from a member of the BSAC Council (an elected board which in theory is in charge) who interprets the links above as meaning that training/instructing while hog looped is allowed for non AS lessons for already qualified Sports Divers diver and above.
 
As I recall, and it's been some time since I read this, BSAC did a bunch of experiments with wrapped longhouses and came to the conclusion that, if the OOG diver came in from behind the donor and on the donor's right, and grabbed the regulator out of the donor's mouth, they could them pull the hose against the donor's throat and choke them. This was given as sufficient reason to avoid the configuration, although, as the position statement shows, BSAC is basically against primary donate in any situation.
 
You usually seems to be a proper and correct person. Why not post to the actual current document? There was considerable fuss which lead to 'clarification'.

Clarification statement on Alternative Supply training and going diving - British Sub-Aqua Club

And

AS Training - Frequently Asked Questions - British Sub-Aqua Club

Rather than repeat the arguments again you could read the last instalment of this row here:

BSAC Mixed Gas/Hog Loop Alternatives

I think there are 504 posts, the first one saying 'I don't want to start another BSAC hog looping row'.

There are a number of interesting posts from a member of the BSAC Council (an elected board which in theory is in charge) who interprets the links above as meaning that training/instructing while hog looped is allowed for non AS lessons for already qualified Sports Divers diver and above.


From the BSAC Position Technical Diving paragraph F specs in the first link you posted, "BSAC Tech does not mandate the use of manifoled twins with isolator".
Really. Rather they promote independent doubles. Which is not that different from sidemounting except the first stages are behind you. Which is IMO less safe than in SM. Headscratcher for sure.
 
From the BSAC Technical diving specs in the first link you posted, BSAC does not promote dual manifolds for doubles. Really. Rather they promote independent doubles. Which is not that different from sidemounting except the first stages are behind you. Which is IMO less safe than in SM. Headscratcher for sure.

Can you be specific about what bit makes you think that?

I did normoxic trimix with BSAC using manifolded twins. Everyone else on the course and the instructor also had manifolded twins.

BSAC will teach people using independent twins, side mount, manifolded twins, rebreathers and pretty much any configuration you might imagine.
 
ScubaInChicago, care to comment?


Jack,

Let's just let this one go as it is getting pretty petty and way WAY off the OP's topic.

If we are going to stay Off Topic let's at least keep it about diving, e.g. BSAC and Hog Looping.

~Old Bear~
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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