Being Forced to Buy Equipment AT LDS for Class

[Thalassamania]

It appears to still be a topic of interest. I know that there are shops out there with this sort of policy.

 

[svnipp]

LDS that push a certain brand or style without fully taking into account the diver's needs, wants, and MEANS TO PAY FOR IT deserve to fail miserably. I have a Blackberry Storm 2. So what you say. Well it has a feature on it called city ID. Last Thursday a call came thru from Palm Springs California. I don't or should I say didn't know anyone in Palm Springs. It was a new diver asking for advice on fins. He saw some of my posts regarding the specific fin as well as my philosophy on gear. He was calling me because the LDs in Palm Springs was trying to push a 200 dollar pair of fins on him when it was not necessary for him to spend that. We talked for nearly a half hour. Discussed the diving he wanted to do, where, plans for future dive training, and the amount of money he wanted to spend. Why was it so difficult for the shop to do that? Why was it necessary to call someone across the country to get the information and guidance he needed to make a purchase? Because of the BS shops that focus on bringing in that initial high dollar sale. These shops do not realize or maybe care that customers can do what this gentleman did. Went on line, compared reviews, and then called me to get my feedback. I don't get anything from this sale (of course if some manufacturing rep by the name of NICK HOLLIS wants to shoot me something for this sale I'll take it) other than a new friend who also happens to be a pro photographer getting into doing it on scuba.

Maybe I go to Palm Springs and have a built in dive buddy, or maybe I don't like the line the local LDS is giving me about UW photo. I'm a 35mm land guy. Have some great cameras and lenses but much of the film is for crap now. But I can call and get good non biased info on a new digital as well as the best place to buy it- ON LINE- Thank you. Those who push top of the line to those who cannot afford it are butt heads. Because once the customer finds out you shafted him he is not coming back. That guy you did not try to push the 200 dollar split fins on may be the one who comes back and buys a BC, Reg, computer, etc. And only because you didn't bend him over in the first place.

Hmm... Maybe I got suckered, maybe not. I bought the $200 fins at the LDS for my OW cert class. I also tried on 3 or 4 other pairs of fins and simply liked the Scubapro Twin Jet Max split fins the best. I had a couple of justifications on this. First off, I expected to pay between $500-600 out the door for my OW class and mask, snorkel, fins, and booties I came in at $605 so within the expected budget pretty much. My other major justification is that you get what you pay for and I'm assuming that I'll be using these fins for the next SEVERAL years so it's an investment.

Now, in looking at the rest of the gear I'm having a hard time in figuring out what to buy. I figure if nothing else, I can always use the snorkel gear to simply snorkel which I love so no loss even if I can't get certified for some reason. Really hard to make the justification on the expense of the regs, BCD, etc. I'm actually somewhat liking the rental route since it should let me experience a bit of variety in gear before I make any purchases.

As to the grouchy LDS owners... I almost had my head bitten off at We B' Divin' in North Richland Hills, TX for mentioning that I was looking at a package on LP. She gave me a very condescending speech about "supporting your local dive shops". My thought was, if I can afford to get into diving by purchasing from LP I'm going to be coming to my LDSs for things like air fills, maintenance, and possible upgrades down the road. I don't mind spending a bit more at an LDS, but when I can get a reg, octo, and BCD for the price of your reg I simply can't afford to pass that up. So you either get the option of selling me training, air, maintenance, and more gear down the road as I progress in diving or you get to sell me nothing at all because I simply can't afford to get into the sport.

Anyone else find it odd to call diving a "sport"? I mean, there is no competition. I don't deny that it takes training and a certain degree of athleticism, but a sport?

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Including the boat dives that is one sweet deal. No limits on pool and you feed em on the boat? I shoulda gone to Kuwait for my cert!

Thanks. Of course, we own the boat, and with gas prices here, it costs me only about $40 for a 6 hour boat run. Now then there is maintainence, paying the captain, berth fees.......blah blah. But it still is Much better than home in the US. And snacks here cost almost nothing. Fatyres- amazing breads cooked with chicken, cheese, mushrooms, all sorts of stuff, are only about $1 for two. Not such a big deal.
But, we still have people try to bargain me down. I tell them to go shop and do what they feel is best. Most return.

 

[Shasta_man]

I love threads on this subject. They bring out some hilarious quotes and some good business sense.

Regardless of when this thread started, it's obviously still an issue in some places. It is amazing what little business sense some of these LDS have and even some instructors. After getting certified, I bought something like $5,000+ worth of gear from the LDS for the wife and I, wham there you go. Of course, it was all cold water gear though I ended up doing most diving on tropical vacations, even using the Zeagle Rangers we bought until just recently when luggage weight limits became a problem, but that's another story. THe LDS owner was real happy with me, but since I had bought everything I needed, I didn't need to spend money, though I occaisionally needed some small stuff and went there but now, there is no hello, hell, I have a hard time even getting someone to help me buy something I know about already. The instructor was good, but never responded to any emails from me about our progression and subsequent trips, except to spam me about classes and the sales at the above LDS which, of course, never were much of a sale (5% isn't going to move me to break out the cash unless it was something I already wanted to buy and now could cheaper). The smart thing for the instructor to have done was simply responded with basic, that sounds great, glad to hear you are using/improving your skills, you should consider this place or that place, you should consider X piece of gear, you should consider taking X class and I'm giving one on X, let me know if you are interested. Stated simply you just support your customer, give them a friendly helpful environment to buy their gear or whatever they need (the classes you have, the trips you sell, etc) and that will bring them back more than any sale or low price ever will.

The "support your LDS or they are going away" garbage was going on when I joined this sport, and now numerous years later, the shops are still here or new ones have come.

 

[Thalassamania]

I've often wondered if the future holds "for profit" dive clubs (or co-op, not for profit dive shops) that provided air fills, training, pool, practice opportunities, programmatic mentoring (as opposed to Con Ed), pooled major capital items (scooters, can lights, rebreathers, etc.) and perhaps even a live aboard or oceanside condos.

Equipment sales would not be the focus, thought they might go on, most folks would shop on the net, possibly through discounts arranged with preferred providers or even buys booked with manufacturers like a shop.

 

[Reef Tank]

She gave me a very condescending speech about "supporting your local dive shops".

Intimidation has worked for millennia.

Remember that Sears sold mail order houses? That made local trades quite upset and mechanization made labor upset.

New York mail order has been in business for many, many years.

 

[scubafanatic]

As to the grouchy LDS owners... I almost had my head bitten off at We B' Divin' in North Richland Hills, TX for mentioning that I was looking at a package on LP. She gave me a very condescending speech about "supporting your local dive shops".

...both the shop you mention, as well as 'Scuba Diving Schools of Fort Worth (TX), have a VERY hostile attitude towards buying off the WWW...and woe to the unfortunate innocent who broaches the subject of buying anything from the 'evil empire' as it were!

 

[wrybosome]

Okay, here's my prices in US dollars.
OW course =$540
<snip>
What do you all think?

I think that's pretty good. My cost in PA was

$300 for the course,
$50 for the naui ow package,
$25 for weight belt rental (wasn't happy about that),
$64 for two days at the quarry
$50 for check out equipment rental

So...~$490, and no boat ride or soft drinks. I thought the price at my shop was fair.

 

[kjvander]

My Ow...

170 for the class which included the online part
30 for the C-card
Free air
5 dollars for the day for parking at the lake for the second day of the OW check out dives (first day was free at a different location)
30 bucks for boots
Free rental of rest of equipment....

235 out the door....

 

[wrybosome]

My Ow...



235 out the door....

Your shop is too cheap and you're probably going to die.