Beginner diver thinking of switching to sidemount

[jlcnuke]

I noticed that here a lot more people feel attacked when there is someone not agreeing with them.

I was just my opinion, on how I approached my own training and education.

There were instance where I lost battery in my computer and had to use a bottom timer, or a spare computer.

And since looking at SPGs on a sidemount is different than on backmount. It's my own opition that I need to know and have muscle memory how to check them.

That has nothing with the fact that perdix has sidemount mode.

AI is a shourcut which is IMHO not good to take when you're a beginner.

There have been instances where SPGs have failed as well. Failures happen with all types of gear.
As I see it, AI isn't a shortcut, it's a different option for monitoring pressure. I don't need "muscle memory" of looking at SPGs while diving sidemount because I don't have an SPG when diving in sidemount, I have AI transmitters instead of SPGs.

You choose to use a tool (SPGs) to accomplish a task (checking pressure).
I choose to use a tool (AI transmitters) to accomplish a task (checking pressure).

In the end, we both know what are pressures are, we just go about it in a different manner. That's fine, but neither choice is a shortcut, it's just a different choice. Just like we likely choose other pieces of equipment that are different, but accomplish the same task (using different equipment for buoyancy control, choosing different regulators for delivering our breathing gas, etc.).

 

[Marie13]

I know CCR divers who have had so many SPG failures that they only use transmitters now.

 

[Cthippo]

Where do non-wireless AI computers fit into this discussion? Is the computer the proverbial weak link, or the wireless connection between the transmitter and the computer? Is having the computer attached to the first stage by a physical hose seen as more reliable or nah?

 

[Marie13]

Where do non-wireless AI computers fit into this discussion? Is the computer the proverbial weak link, or the wireless connection between the transmitter and the computer? Is having the computer attached to the first stage by a physical hose seen as more reliable or nah?

Non-wireless AI computers have NO place in this discussion. Those computers are part of consoles and consoles have no place in SM diving. End of story.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

Like most things in life, I am going to go against the stream on this one.

I am a firm believer in finding the config that will fit you best for the diving you want to do. If you want to cave dive in the SM config, start now. Do not let anyone tell you that you need 100 dives or any other arbitrary numbers they make up.

I did my SM course at the same time I did my RAID Advanced 35 course. I may have had 15 or 20 dives at that point. You see, SM is where I new I wanted to go due to the diving I planned on doing. Plus, I am a big fan of having my gas sources independent of one another.

Was the SM course harder because I was still working on propulsion techniques like frog kick, back kick and helicopter turn? No it wasn't. At no time was I ever out of control even though I was still working on my trim and buoyancy.

It did allow me to feel more comfortable in the water, which not many talk about. You see, when you are new and doing dives in the 30-35m range...nothing makes you feel more safe than having that extra source of gas that is 100% independent of your other gas source. As a matter of fact, I did my first deep dive for the ADV 35 course in single tank bm. The entire time my brain was like this " How much gas do I have left?...ohhhh a wreck...how much gas is left...is that enough to get me to the surface...think Turk...Puffer fish!!! " LOL

My second deep dive for the course as done in the SM config. That dive was incredibly relaxing I still checked my gas as I was supposed to but I was able to relax a bit more knowing I could rely on me to save me in the event of an issue with one cylinder. This allows me breathe more like a normal person rather than sucking down gas like on the previous dive. My SAC rate was actually lower on the second dive.

Comfort is a big part of diving and safety tends to make most of us more comfortable.

I say go for it but be sure to find a great instructor. SM instructors, like all instructors, are not equal. Find someone who dives SM when they are doing fun dives and not just when teaching. Ask to see videos of past students and post questions here about where to find a proper sidemount instructor.

I am always happy to help if needed.

 

[SlugLife]

Hello all!! I got certed a year ago, have 17 dives under my belt. And wanted to know what all was involved in getting ready for sidemount diving. I know there’s a class through ssi, but is it just ow to sidemount? Are there prereqs? I’m currently working on saving for a perdix ai so I can monitor 2 tanks (almost there and I’ve been looking into hog d3 regs and nomad bcd. The whole purpose of sidemount for me is to lengthen bottom time, but mostly to work towards cave diving certs. And I read about the comfort under water. I’m already pretty comfy with a al80 on my back. So sidemount should be awesome
So if anyone knows any classes I should take before sidemount or have any suggestions for gear. I don’t have anyone to ask so I google and read this site. Lol.

To be blunt, skip side-mount until you're more experienced. Attempting it as a new diver will likely be frustrating, overwhelming, a bad experience, and provide little benefit. For your current goals, just swap tanks on the surface and proceed with your next dive.

The reason why divers start with back-mount, is it's much simpler. With side-mount, you're managing two tanks, and that's the easy part. The tanks aren't "attached" or "fixed" to you. They're effectively floating at your side secured with bungies and you also have to worry about trim. Then you also have regulator swapping, atypical gear setups, and a bunch of other stuff that makes it a fairly steep learning curve.

Sidemount divers often go through a few gear-configurations before they find one which works for them; meaning not only are you paying for training, but also quite a bit of gear as well.

When you actually are ready (which IMO, you're at least a year away from), I recommend Sidemounting.com as supplemental training materials, along with an in-person course. Sidemounting.com videos are amazing; concise, to the point, engaging, etc ... unlike the kind of training videos you probably watched during your open-water course.

 

[SlugLife]

ITT is the only one that requires 25 dives (which he will do probably soon). All instructors I spoke with always told me that the earlier you do these types of courses, the better it is since you wouldn't give time for bad habits to form. Anyway, as I said before, this is just my opinion.

However:
- I don't get why AOW is "needed"; that is true only if he wants to go "deeper", which is absolutely not a necessity in my opinion. If he likes, why not... but saying that it is "needed" is nonsense. Some of my best dives were actually quite shallow.
- Nitrox... well, it depends on how he wants to dive; for sure is crucial for tech diving, but if he doesn't need it now, why spend money on it?

This is technically correct, that AOW and Nitrox aren't technically needed for SideMount.

My first question though would be motivation: "why does one want to do side-mount?" If the answers are "longer dives" or "deeper dives" or "future cave-diving" then I'd strongly suggest AOW and Nitrox first, because they're more useful and fundamental for one's goals.

My personal primary motivations for SideMount were (a) reduced back-strain above water and (b) redundant air-supply. My intent was NOT deeper or technical dives. As a result, I'm about 1-year into sidemount, and still haven't bothered with Nitrox.

Like most things in life, I am going to go against the stream on this one.

I am a firm believer in finding the config that will fit you best for the diving you want to do. If you want to cave dive in the SM config, start now. Do not let anyone tell you that you need 100 dives or any other arbitrary numbers they make up.

I did my SM course at the same time I did my RAID Advanced 35 course. I may have had 15 or 20 dives at that point. You see, SM is where I new I wanted to go due to the diving I planned on doing. Plus, I am a big fan of having my gas sources independent of one another.

Was the SM course harder because I was still working on propulsion techniques like frog kick, back kick and helicopter turn? No it wasn't. At no time was I ever out of control even though I was still working on my trim and buoyancy.

It did allow me to feel more comfortable in the water, which not many talk about. You see, when you are new and doing dives in the 30-35m range...nothing makes you feel more safe than having that extra source of gas that is 100% independent of your other gas source. As a matter of fact, I did my first deep dive for the ADV 35 course in single tank bm. The entire time my brain was like this " How much gas do I have left?...ohhhh a wreck...how much gas is left...is that enough to get me to the surface...think Turk...Puffer fish!!! " LOL

My second deep dive for the course as done in the SM config. That dive was incredibly relaxing I still checked my gas as I was supposed to but I was able to relax a bit more knowing I could rely on me to save me in the event of an issue with one cylinder. This allows me breathe more like a normal person rather than sucking down gas like on the previous dive. My SAC rate was actually lower on the second dive.

Comfort is a big part of diving and safety tends to make most of us more comfortable.

I say go for it but be sure to find a great instructor. SM instructors, like all instructors, are not equal. Find someone who dives SM when they are doing fun dives and not just when teaching. Ask to see videos of past students and post questions here about where to find a proper sidemount instructor.

I am always happy to help if needed.

I'll +1 this post, even though I essentially gave the opposite advice.

If OP is very specifically interested in side-mount (and not merely long dives), and willing to put up with the learning curve and expense, then go for it. That said, diving doubles or pursuing other courses might better suit their needs.
And yes, redundant air is pretty amazing. I've never come close to running out of air, but I did have a minor regulator incident once, which ended up being my first nudge towards sidemount.

 

[Gbair89]

Alright so I have reached the end of my dove season this year. Took so many of your opinions and applied them. I have 65 dives under my belt from 40 to 115 ft. AOW with nitrox certed. I have been working tirelessly to improve trim and being neutral at all times and frog kicking. I’ve tried several different rigs this last season. One strap harness with back mount doubles. Steel tank instead of alum. Dropping weight and moving my weights around to “balance my rig” not sure if that’s a thing but I found it helps me AMAZINGLY. I’m still feeling partial to sidemount. Not just because longer bottom times, that’s just an added benefit obviously. But to be more rounded of a diver and more ready for the cave class I found and am going to take. The instructor teaches in sidemount and he’s pretty well known for his skills and accomplishments. (I’m sure you already guessed right lol). I agree I did and still do need SO MUCH MORE TIME actually diving. As awesome as it is to see where I was end of last season and where I am end of this season, it showed me my learning ability and I think I can move my timeline up some. Not much. But maybe 4-7 years. Maybe sooner if I can get the gear faster. Lol. But I found spg and my wrist computer to be my fav configuration so far. After doing more research I have bviiusly have more questions. Rigs. What would be the best for me. I plan on full cave still. But a lot of different types and conditions I actually dove are more suited for Dbl back mount. Im looking at an apeks wtx harness. Hog d3 regs. Anyone have experience with hog in cold water? Like ice diving cold? I’ve pursued and found by going to all dove shops in a 50 mile radius a course schedule I want to follow. rescue, advance nitrox and decompression theory. Intro to tech thru UTD. That’s the first set of goals. After that will be more tech courses for deeper dives and whatnot. But depth isn’t important more so the information I’m taking in. Quality of course is what I want. Thank you everyone for the amazing opinions. All of them. And please keep them coming. I find little treasures in all of them and apply them and it has made me a better diver for it.

 

[Thrutch]

Intro to tech thru UTD

Are you going SM through UTD? I imagine they require using their Z manifold, about which there are some reservations.

 

[306dive306]

Alright so I have reached the end of my dove season this year. Took so many of your opinions and applied them. I have 65 dives under my belt from 40 to 115 ft. AOW with nitrox certed. I have been working tirelessly to improve trim and being neutral at all times and frog kicking. I’ve tried several different rigs this last season. One strap harness with back mount doubles. Steel tank instead of alum. Dropping weight and moving my weights around to “balance my rig” not sure if that’s a thing but I found it helps me AMAZINGLY. I’m still feeling partial to sidemount. Not just because longer bottom times, that’s just an added benefit obviously. But to be more rounded of a diver and more ready for the cave class I found and am going to take. The instructor teaches in sidemount and he’s pretty well known for his skills and accomplishments. (I’m sure you already guessed right lol). I agree I did and still do need SO MUCH MORE TIME actually diving. As awesome as it is to see where I was end of last season and where I am end of this season, it showed me my learning ability and I think I can move my timeline up some. Not much. But maybe 4-7 years. Maybe sooner if I can get the gear faster. Lol. But I found spg and my wrist computer to be my fav configuration so far. After doing more research I have bviiusly have more questions. Rigs. What would be the best for me. I plan on full cave still. But a lot of different types and conditions I actually dove are more suited for Dbl back mount. Im looking at an apeks wtx harness. Hog d3 regs. Anyone have experience with hog in cold water? Like ice diving cold? I’ve pursued and found by going to all dove shops in a 50 mile radius a course schedule I want to follow. rescue, advance nitrox and decompression theory. Intro to tech thru UTD. That’s the first set of goals. After that will be more tech courses for deeper dives and whatnot. But depth isn’t important more so the information I’m taking in. Quality of course is what I want. Thank you everyone for the amazing opinions. All of them. And please keep them coming. I find little treasures in all of them and apply them and it has made me a better diver for it.

1) first and foremost, i want to thank you for being such a humble person and for going about diving the way you do. I believe humble people live longer.

2) Rigs: try a few before you make a decision. They will all feel differently in different body shapes. I used to dive a certain rig in SM but when i started doing stage dives i felt the need to change in order to address the new weight distribution and it has worked fine for me.

3) i dont dive HOG regs but they have an excellent reputation for comd water diving. I live in saskatchewan, canada, and i definitely know cold water diving.

4) if i were you, i would not “carve in stone” the name of the agency you want to train with. I would definitely never consider PADI for tec training, though. I am a firm defender of the motto “it’s not the agency that matters; it’s the instructor that matters” UNLESS we’re talking PADI.

5) before you sign up for a cave course, go spend time with the instructor in the water. Some people have great “pedigrees” but you may not get along with them on a person-to-person level. There is no shortage of extremely competent instructors who do not have gigantic pedigrees but who are a joy to be around and who love teaching.

6) i highly recommend you do not stop diving altogether for months. Find a dive shop that offers pool time in ur area and go practice basic skills. Im a cave diver who lives in northern canada. I dive constantly in open water and pools, practicing everything i possibly can even though there is no rock above my head. When i go mexico, the beginner skills i have are “still there”.

Best wishes! Safe dives!