noshow
Contributor
Is this true? Not that I did, but if I did buy a SP reg online and brought it into my LDS that deals SP, they are supposed to refuse to service it???
balanced diaphragm vs. balanced piston
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Is this true? Not that I did, but if I did buy a SP reg online and brought it into my LDS that deals SP, they are supposed to refuse to service it???
They don't know you bought it on-line,
unless you tell them!
I should clarify. This was warranty service. With SP you get free parts for life as part of their warranty. The bulletin said no warranty service. I asked about used gear, as the owner had just sold on Ebay himself, and he said that he would service used SP products, but would only honor the SP warranty work on legitimately purchased items. He has the memo displayed on the sales counter.
I just dropped over a grand on a new bc and a pair of tanks with him so I felt comfortable playing devils advocate on the issue. SP basically has a price fixing policy, to remain an "authorized" dealer they force the retailers to charge MSRP. I asked why SP continues to sell to online merchants so they can turn around and sell at half the price; his reply was that SP is suing these companies, trying to force them to stop. I dont know, because SP continues to supply the online retailers, and could track serial numbers to see where "grey market" product is coming from.
DiveInn stopped carrying SP about a month ago but has it back in stock now.
I just dropped over a grand on a new bc and a pair of tanks with him so I felt comfortable playing devils advocate on the issue. SP basically has a price fixing policy, to remain an "authorized" dealer they force the retailers to charge MSRP. I asked why SP continues to sell to online merchants so they can turn around and sell at half the price; his reply was that SP is suing these companies, trying to force them to stop. I dont know, because SP continues to supply the online retailers, and could track serial numbers to see where "grey market" product is coming from.
DiveInn stopped carrying SP about a month ago but has it back in stock now.
canuckton
Registered
Joost my two cents,
but on the "piston corrosion" issue....
I service an awful lot of regs, diaphragm and piston both. I have only ever seen one piston reg corroded to the point of not working...It was an old Mk 10 left unrinsed in a small puddle of seawater for >3 yrs (said seawater was but crusts of salt).
However, I have seen 3 diaphragm regs corroded to the point of no return...One USD conshelf, one USD SEA, and one Dacor (those wacky arctic ones with the turrets and weird boost piston design)
I guess that if any water enters a diaphragm because of a tear or improperly seated diaphragm, the interior parts corrode easily. Esp balance chambers and pins with close tolerances. The pistons seem a little more able to cope with the corrosion, perhaps because of the inherent design. Or maybe because the water isn't trapped so completely into the regulator.
I own both piston and diaphragm types, and I dive them both regularly, and frankly, I have no preference from a divers' point of view
Oh yeah, I also saw a Mitey Mite reg new in box, too corroded to work. Go figure.
2 very wordy cents
but on the "piston corrosion" issue....
I service an awful lot of regs, diaphragm and piston both. I have only ever seen one piston reg corroded to the point of not working...It was an old Mk 10 left unrinsed in a small puddle of seawater for >3 yrs (said seawater was but crusts of salt).
However, I have seen 3 diaphragm regs corroded to the point of no return...One USD conshelf, one USD SEA, and one Dacor (those wacky arctic ones with the turrets and weird boost piston design)
I guess that if any water enters a diaphragm because of a tear or improperly seated diaphragm, the interior parts corrode easily. Esp balance chambers and pins with close tolerances. The pistons seem a little more able to cope with the corrosion, perhaps because of the inherent design. Or maybe because the water isn't trapped so completely into the regulator.
I own both piston and diaphragm types, and I dive them both regularly, and frankly, I have no preference from a divers' point of view
Oh yeah, I also saw a Mitey Mite reg new in box, too corroded to work. Go figure.
2 very wordy cents
Max
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As far as servicing sp and mares, I live in the Northern Marianna Islands where 90%+ of the divers are tourists, thus the local shops are very willing to service regulators (yearly inspection/service). For warranty issues the drawback to ordering online is you send the regulator in to be repaired this can take up to two months turnaround time.
It will take a few more dives to notice any difference in moisture between the mares abyss and the sp. So far the only comment my wife has made is that the mare abyss does give her jaw fatique especially if we do more than one dive in a day.
It will take a few more dives to notice any difference in moisture between the mares abyss and the sp. So far the only comment my wife has made is that the mare abyss does give her jaw fatique especially if we do more than one dive in a day.
OP
DivingDoc
Contributor
I have the opportunity to buy a 3 yr old used SP MK20 G500 for $295.00. It's 3 years old and has been owned by a Dive Shop proprietor. The shop is a start-up and doesn't sell SP's any more, so they want to use their own equipment. Also, they have an Air2, 1 yr old, for $115 or a G190 as a secondary for $85.00.
What do you think -- should I go for it?
ET
What do you think -- should I go for it?
ET
Get the 20/500 and be done with it. It should last you a life time. I personally don't own SP, but this is one of several make/models that I classify as "top performing/never need another in your lifetime" type reg.
Get the 190 for your alternate.
Skip the Air2. I'm not a fan of alternate/inflator combos.
I'm a certified tech, also. Everyone has already given you good responses re: piston vs. diaphram. I personally prefer diaphrams. The LDS that said "pistons corrode" is full of crap. They will both rust if not taken care of, or conversely will never rust if properly maintained. Pistons theoretically wear their parts out faster, but not in reality unless you plan on NEVER servicing your reg. I like diaphrams for ease of IP tuning.
Why does everyone think all diaphrams are environmentally sealed? Some are, some aren't. I had a 15 Conshelf that rusted shut from abuse (my girlfriend's). It is EASIER to environmentally seal a diaphram in the sense it can air sealed (read no gunk).
Get the 190 for your alternate.
Skip the Air2. I'm not a fan of alternate/inflator combos.
I'm a certified tech, also. Everyone has already given you good responses re: piston vs. diaphram. I personally prefer diaphrams. The LDS that said "pistons corrode" is full of crap. They will both rust if not taken care of, or conversely will never rust if properly maintained. Pistons theoretically wear their parts out faster, but not in reality unless you plan on NEVER servicing your reg. I like diaphrams for ease of IP tuning.
Why does everyone think all diaphrams are environmentally sealed? Some are, some aren't. I had a 15 Conshelf that rusted shut from abuse (my girlfriend's). It is EASIER to environmentally seal a diaphram in the sense it can air sealed (read no gunk).
deepocean
Contributor
Hi DivingDoc
wow! What a nice discussion. Difficult is nt it?
OK: about Mares: Mares abbys is junk! Sorry to put it this way but i had one and really it is not worth the money.
Abouth corrosion: pistons do get alot of dirt inside and personally i dont like this! So that is why i bought a Apeks. But i know also from WKPP divers: they leave their pistons regs. (read MK 2/ 20/25's) for days and even weeks under water and these regs still work! This is because pistons are not too sensitive to dirt and water. I also saw many MK20's here at my club that were green and grey inside !!! and still worked well but then again i still dont like this!
The piston / diaph. is not an issue. My advise : about regs: dont get a mares! But go for SP. Because the reg it self is really more important then the technology used.
AIR2: Please oh please forget this ! Get your self a nice and decent working second stage! (Read earlier discussions about AIR2 if you dont believe me!!!). AIR2 works VERY VERY good above water and works VERY VERY bad under water when you get into a serious situation!
OH yes before i forget : REEFRAF: are you by any chance a DIR diver? (Very usefull tips to diving doc! about putting the reg around the neck)
Hoped this helped you.
Xerxes
p.s. my exprience with mares and SP: SP breathes defenitly WARMER! SO you dont get a dry mouth.
wow! What a nice discussion. Difficult is nt it?
OK: about Mares: Mares abbys is junk! Sorry to put it this way but i had one and really it is not worth the money.
Abouth corrosion: pistons do get alot of dirt inside and personally i dont like this! So that is why i bought a Apeks. But i know also from WKPP divers: they leave their pistons regs. (read MK 2/ 20/25's) for days and even weeks under water and these regs still work! This is because pistons are not too sensitive to dirt and water. I also saw many MK20's here at my club that were green and grey inside !!! and still worked well but then again i still dont like this!
The piston / diaph. is not an issue. My advise : about regs: dont get a mares! But go for SP. Because the reg it self is really more important then the technology used.
AIR2: Please oh please forget this ! Get your self a nice and decent working second stage! (Read earlier discussions about AIR2 if you dont believe me!!!). AIR2 works VERY VERY good above water and works VERY VERY bad under water when you get into a serious situation!
OH yes before i forget : REEFRAF: are you by any chance a DIR diver? (Very usefull tips to diving doc! about putting the reg around the neck)
Hoped this helped you.
Xerxes
p.s. my exprience with mares and SP: SP breathes defenitly WARMER! SO you dont get a dry mouth.
OP
DivingDoc
Contributor
Well -- today I bought my ScubaPro MK 25 S600 today. Earlier in the afternoon, I tried out someone's Abyss and also a used SP MK 20 G500. I didn't think the Abyss breathed as well as the SP, it did not eliminate dry mouth as I was hoping it would, and it really caused jaw fatigue, even after only 10 minutes in the pool.
So I bought the used one for my husband, along with an Octo alternate SP R190 (which also breathed very well) -- both, along with standard gauges for under $400.00, which I thought was a great price. My husband wanted me to get a new one because of my various health problems.
I also got a Suunto dive computer --a Vyper. I hope I made the right choice.
Elaine
oxyhacker
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Actually no. This is a very well informed group, and everything that needs to be said has been said, and very well. I will just add that for sheer air delivery you can't beat a BP - just look at the sizes of the air passages to see why. And the "they get water inside"arguement sounds good, but in real life just doesn't seem to matter - the water we are concerned with usually gets in through the filter! I got a couple buddies who dive MkVs and 10s in salt, and service them every 5 years or so. No corrosions prob, though they are scrupulous about rinsing. Actually when it comes to catastrophic failure, the most common cause I've seen in seat probs in diaphragm 1sts.
I used to be a big fan of ScubaPro BPs - great performers, rugged, and a snap to service. Lately though SP has complicated the design - on the Mk16 (or 14/18!) and S600 series they seem to be following a why use one part when 2 will do philosophy of design. Still terrific performers, still as good as anything on the market, but not the standouts they were a few years back.
So I don't really think either BP or D has a clearcut advantage. What I do think is important is WHAT BP or diaphragm. If O wants a diaprhagm that doesn't have to mean Mares - you can get an Apeks, Zeagle, SP or Atomic BP for the same money or less. A lot of the people I see diving Abysses and Rubys are people who wanted to get into tech but didn't know much about it, and went to a shop that didn't either, who sold them the Mares and a black "Tech Lite" BC on the assumption they must be the best because they were so expensive. The new techie struts about happily with his/her new gear for a while, until they notice what the real techies are using, then bite the bullet and buy what they should have bought in the first place.
QUOTE]Originally posted by Stone
Oxyhacker's going to give you the best reply, so I'll just give an example in regards to the comments about balanced pistons:SNIP[/QUOTE]
I used to be a big fan of ScubaPro BPs - great performers, rugged, and a snap to service. Lately though SP has complicated the design - on the Mk16 (or 14/18!) and S600 series they seem to be following a why use one part when 2 will do philosophy of design. Still terrific performers, still as good as anything on the market, but not the standouts they were a few years back.
So I don't really think either BP or D has a clearcut advantage. What I do think is important is WHAT BP or diaphragm. If O wants a diaprhagm that doesn't have to mean Mares - you can get an Apeks, Zeagle, SP or Atomic BP for the same money or less. A lot of the people I see diving Abysses and Rubys are people who wanted to get into tech but didn't know much about it, and went to a shop that didn't either, who sold them the Mares and a black "Tech Lite" BC on the assumption they must be the best because they were so expensive. The new techie struts about happily with his/her new gear for a while, until they notice what the real techies are using, then bite the bullet and buy what they should have bought in the first place.
QUOTE]Originally posted by Stone
Oxyhacker's going to give you the best reply, so I'll just give an example in regards to the comments about balanced pistons:SNIP[/QUOTE]
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