Bad Weather - Right Choice?

[Dessari]

Being a relatively new (23 dives) diver, I would like the opinions of some more seasoned divers on a situation I was placed in this past Saturday:

My husband and I had booked 2 spots on a charter off the coast of NC for Saturday am. We woke up that morning at 4:30 to lightning and thunder but got up and headed for the dive shop anyway, hoping conditions would improve, since the charters are non-refundable unless THEY cancel. When we arrived at the dive shop/dock everyone was busily loading their gear onto boats, with the thunderstorm happening all around.

Now I grew up in this area of NC and I could easily tell by looking to the south and east (now that the sun had come up) that the storms were well out over the ocean and not looking to go anywhere anytime soon. And I also know better than to be out on the open ocean in a thunderstorm, if it can be avoided. I inquired in the dive shop about the possibilty of the charter being called off because of weather and was basically told "no way - they had 45 divers ready to dive and they were going out. Plus, it wasn't raining offshore." In the meantime I had heard two of the captains talking to each other about where to go and one said, "Doesn't really matter, its going to be wet and rough."

As a side note, we had gone out the weekend before in 7 foot seas because they didn't want to cancel the trip. That was rough but this seemed dangerous to me.

Regardless, 2 all day charters are pricey and we loaded our gear up on the boat. Again I asked the captain about the weather and he blew me off. Just as we were about the leave the dock lightning hit pretty close and the thunder was horribly loud. I asked them to lower the walkway back down and let me off. It was obvious the weather wasn't getting better and I was not comfortable with something I KNEW was dangerous. The captain shrugged, said, "Your choice" and my husband and I got off.

I went back into the shop and nicely asked for a refund or a raincheck but was refused, citing their cancellation policy. I did know the cancellation policy ahead of time, but made the assumption that they would never endanger their customers in this way. I would never expect them to cancel just because conditions weren't perfect but what, exactly, would it take to call the dive? They didn't cancel because of winds
or because of thunderstorms.

Incidently that nasty weather hung around offshore for the rest of the day.

Did I make the right choice or was I just being disagreeable? Did the other divers not get off the boat because they were stuck paying no matter what? Is it ok to endanger people just because they have signed your liabilty waiver?

Thanks a ton for your input.

Dessari

 

[miked]

Hi Dessari,
As a bottom line: it is always ok to "call a dive"-no explanation needed.

I think, given your description of the conditions, your experience level, and all the other facts you mentioned, that you definitely did the right thing.

Regarding the "no refund" policy- I have seen that policy in many locations. Remember,that the amount of money not refunded is not worth the potential downside, had you gone against your instincts, and gone on the boat.

It might be interesting to find out, if possible, how the trip went?(i.e.,do you know any of those that stayed on the boat well enough to ask?)

Again, I think you made the right call.

Take care,
Mike

 

[String]

Depends entirely on your comfort level, if YOU arent happy in those conditions, dont dive. Simple as that.

 

[FreeFloat]

Everything is based on your personal comfort and acceptable-risk policies. For you, obviously, being on a metal object floating in water in the midst of a raging electrical storm, surpassed your acceptable risk level. For others, perhaps that charter fee was more of a concern than the environment.

Never question going with yout gut instinct in calling a dive. Some day you may override your 'better judgement' and live to regret it....... or not.

What constiitutes "called dive" to you will likely not be the same as someone else's.

You did right - for you (and your buddy). Do't listen too hard to others opinions as their "mileage will vary."

 

[RIOceanographer]

I went back into the shop and nicely asked for a refund or a raincheck but was refused, citing their cancellation policy.

As everyone else said, you are never wrong to call a dive if you have doubts.

I am, however, curious what other people think of strict cancellation policies like the one you mention. I know it is pretty common practice to have no refunds unless a boat decides to go out. I understand the boats want to make money etc and don't want people cancelling on a whim so I can see why they do it. However, I also think it has the potential to backfire on the boats because the thought of losing the money may cause divers to go out in conditions they are not comfortable in. If the diver is not up to the conditions but the cancellation policy causes them to go anyway, this is a recipe for an accident in my opinion.

Seems to me the dive boats should not be doing anything to discourage divers from making calls regarding their own safety.

 

[Wijbrandus]

If I sign up for a boat, and the boat sails, I consider my money spent. If I call the dive because of the weather conditions, and the boat still sails, I would consider the money lost. Bottom line is I gave them my money. It's nice if they give it back, but I consider it gone from the get go.

That said, there's no way in HELL I'm sailing in those conditions. I'd rather let the money go to the bottom of the sea than throw myself down after it. It's also a lot easier to walk away from the boat if the money was given over ahead of time, rather than that day.

Dessari, you made the right call. Never second-guess your own sense of self-preservation.

 

[DeputyDan]

You did right!!!

 

[pasley]

You did right.

But I hear you about the amount of money. Do you know what color the flag was that day? Was there a small craft advisory out? What does the coast guard say about conditions? In short, what type of "evidence" can you gather? Who would be willing to go to court and testify? Can you contact any of the divers and see if they even got to dive? What was the sea state where they went? You don’t know, they may have gotten to sea and found a great spot and had a wonderful time. But if they did not, then you could consider your options.

I would gather the information above, and then sit down and write a demand letter sent by certified mail to them. Be calm and cite your reasons for leaving the boat and your conviciton, supported by the NOAA small craft advisory and/or the US Coast Guards advice (if you can get it) to mariners on staying in port that day. Then demand a full refund by "x" date (10 days from date of mailing or so).

If that does not work, you could argue your case in small claims court for the refund. The challenge is you would have to prove they were sailing in "unsafe" conditions and a reasonable and prudent company would have cancelled the voyage and that your leaving the dive boat was prudent. In short, an uphill fight. But you never know, the judge may think that going to sea in an electrical storm and strapping a metal tank onto your body might not be prudent and give you the refund. Not likely, but hey, OJ is still walking free. They might even refund the money just to avoid the hassle of spending the time in court.

But the bottom line is, better safe and alive and poorer than to save the money and get A: struck by lightning or B: struck by the swim step as the boat heaves in the seas and you try to re-board or C: getting swept under the boat while re-boarding in tall seas and having it crash down on top of you.

 

[Scubaguy62]

Congrats Dessari, your decision was the best you could have made that day.

Regardless of what anyone else may say, and despite that the operator should have volunteered their cancellation policy, you needed to familiarize yourself with the operator's cancelation policy (in my profession we call it the doctrine of "caveat emptor" or buyer beware). However, there are at least three ways whereby you can get your money back. See, you paid for a service, but you didn't receive the service for which you paid, which is a cause for which there is no remedy at law, but in equity. This means that if the operator kept your money, they should have provided a service equal to the reasonable value of what was paid (no more, no less), otherwise they have been unjustly enriched.

1 - If you paid with a credit card, you can simply dispute the charge alleging that you did not received the service for which you paid. It should end here.

2 - If it doesn't, and the dive operator is a member of the Better Business Bureau, you can file a complaint with the BBB seeking a refund. Be as detailed as possible in your complaint. Your odds of winning depend greatly on how you sieze the advantage of telling a better story than the other party.

3 - You can also file a complaint with the Office of the Attorney General, who is a bit more successful than the BBB in defending consumers' interests.

And if neither of these work, depending on the amount of money you're seeking back and on the filing fees for a small claims suit in N.C. (call your county clerk for that info), you could sue them and hope they have enough business sense to refund the money then. If not, small claims judges usually award court costs and filing fees as a part of recovery, or you can always hope for the operator not to answer the complaint and then you'd get a judgment by default.

Regardless, of the choice you take, you want to consult with an attorney. Don't worry about bringing your checkbook because most (if not all) attorneys do not charge for the first consultation, and if they believe you have a case, but it is not economically sound for them to take it, they usually end up telling you which is your best course of action. IOW, legal advise for which you didn't pay.

Hope this helps!!!

 

[GoBlue!]

Congrats on making the right decision. Several years back, I was on my way down the Eastern Seaboard to visit Duke's hyperbaric facilities, and had planned a trip off the NC coast. Showed up bright & early that morning and found the shop calling the trip off due to weather conditions far less severe than those you're describing. I appreciated their safety-conscious ways.

I bet you'll nail down future charters on their cancellation policies, giving them a couple of "what-if" scenarios if you're not familiar with their operation. There are a lot of charters out there; I'd just bag the ones whose policies you're not comfortable with, especially when your threshold to call a dive may be a bit lower given your experience level (as well it should be!!).

Jim