Bad air

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Don- that looks like a pretty good idea for $50, it doesn't look to weigh very much.

And then $6 per cartridge for 5 to 20 testings ?

Big question: How do you know when the capsules are pooped out?

Or do you believe the manufacturer and other sellers who claims from 5~10 tests?
I guess Swampdiver answered that well.
At best, the above is poorly worded. The first portion of the sentence has nothing to do with the second part, or conclusory portion. It is a non sequitur. In other words~ one doesn't lead to the other.

At worst, it is alarmist manipulation and obfuscation.
Well on one hand I feel a little silly worrying about it, but on the other - I'm sure the problem is bigger than stated as the article says: So often with scuba deaths the air and body are not tested for CO, so in addition to the ones we know about, there are some others. And we know that some operators are doing little to prevent it, even less to admit it after it happens. I'd really like to see the operators and agencies come together for a solution but it is not happening. I suppose the best I can do it buy the tester, use it, and include that in my complaints.

If you look here the manufacturer Lawrence Factor indicates the capsule will last 10 tests but that depends on what time interval it is used over. A one week dive trip yes, but one year sitting in your damp dive bag no. The ten use recommendation assumes dry compressed air with no oil mist contamination. Once these capsules are contaminated with moisture, oil, and a few other types of gaseous compounds they will lose their effectiveness. The best advice after ten uses or the dive week would be to replace the capsule. For six bucks I'd rather have a capsule that is fresh than rely on a suspect one. If you really want to know if it is still functioning purchase one of those aerosol cans of CO test gas and spray it on the capsule.
Carbon Monoxide tester for scuba and firefighting


That cartridge you indicated is not the one used for this device. Here is the link to the capsule from LF. ANY colour change according to Mike Casey at LF indicates the breathing air should not be used.
CO-Cop Capsule Color Chart
I included that chart in two other threads, but thanks - and for explaining.
 
Well I know poo-poo happens ... that said ... a bad taste or a smell was always present in cases I've been around. But I'm no expert at the signs don't take that as an answer to be able to tell all bad fills.
 
If you want to do any testing you could do it on a day/lot basis. As most shops, resorts, and boats will tend to fill everything they have at night so it is all ready to go in the morning, you should have a good result from one tank that represents all. Try to get the last tank filled.

But if you don't have a tester and are worried, anytime you get a headache during a dive or right after one, you should think sinuses or CO/CO2 build up. If your sinuses are clear, start looking at the air - cold water headache not included.
 
gilldiver, thats been my testing, Ill give the co-cop a try then save it and test when my humane test warns me.


happy diving
 
Oh hell, my thinking is the operator should have an inline test for all fills. Since they don't, I think I'll test every tank for a while. What - $1 a tank for testing? Worth it!
 
Sometimes even good gas is bad gas. I have never personally experienced this but have heard of this happening (it may be the case of an urban legend) but a diver got a cylinder that was suppose to be air but was nitrox. How did this happen, well as most know many dive ops do not put visual stickers on their cylinders let alone nitrox bumper stickers. At best they have a green cap. When a cylinder is filled with nitrox they just put a little tape on them with the MOD. Although we have had cylinder delivered to use with not even that as the op knew we had our own tester.

My long winded point with this is that there are some divers who analyze every cylinder they get as it were nitrox, even 21% nitrox. So doing a CO test would be just one more test.

One other point, if you are going to test you test every cylinder every time. And as for longevity of the slugs one thing that folks should be aware of is resealing them between uses so they do not become contaminated.

BTW - There are testers for furnaces that do both CO and O2 testing.
 
Well I know poo-poo happens ... that said ... a bad taste or a smell was always present in cases I've been around. But I'm no expert at the signs don't take that as an answer to be able to tell all bad fills.

Way back in 1970 my instructor said to open your mouth and then crack open the tank valve and let it blow in your face for a few seconds while taking a breath, if there was any noticeable smell or taste to the air it might be bad.
 
if there was any noticeable smell or taste to the air it might be bad.

No, it is bad. Air must be absolutely odorless, without exception or degree.
 
In the last 24 months amongst our group of divers we have had the following incidents only found by using reliable CO detector technology. There was no indication (odour, taste, or irritant) of a problem otherwise. The liveaboard was a Tier A well known company and the resort also a popular one. There will be no further information as to the location of these incidents, but they do provide some insight into the type of problems out in the industry.

1) Liveaboard CO problem

First day all nitrox tanks contaminated with carbon monoxide between 1 and 18 ppm. Compressor's intake was well placed with no external sources of CO present. Compressor was located in very tiny room with only small door and no cross ventilation and due to noise operator was in the habit of closing the door during operation. Once door was opened and compressor was run in cooler evening they managed to keep CO levels between 0 and 5 ppm for the week. There was no catalyst in the cartridge to convert CO to CO2. Other than sitting on deck and not diving there was no other way to reduce exposure to zero. Group leader tried to keep divers shallower when he saw increased CO levels for the day.

Cause: pyrolysis of compressor oil secondary to poor installation, lack of compressor room ventilation, and lack of catalyst to convert CO to CO2.

2) Roatan CO problem

First day at resort and all 12 tanks were checked for CO on way out to dive site. Concentrations varied from 0 to 30 ppm carbon monoxide. Group leader refused to allow dive and boat went back to shore. The tanks were emptied and filters changed on the compressor after discussion with dive shop manager. Again intake was well placed with no potential for CO entrainment. Source was traced to poorly installed compressors running simultaneously in same room with poor ventilation. This time there was catalyst in the purifier however the filters had been run past their end of service life and the catalyst no longer functions to convert CO to CO2 when wet. After the filter change all tanks remained CO free for balance of week.

Cause: pyrolysis of compressor oil secondary to poor installation, lack of ventilation, and wet filter media (catalyst) which could not convert CO to CO2

Once one starts to look for CO on a regular basis particularly in the high heat tropical areas often with poor compressor installations, no ventilation, and no catalyst in the filters it is surprising how often carbon monoxide contamination crops up. When a bit of oil is burned intermittently there may be no odour as that is removed from the air stream by the activated charcoal. At the lower levels one may just think they have a bit of sea sickness, flu, food poisoning, hang over, etc. and I suspect much of this low level CO contamination remains under the radar as we are not checking on a regular basis. As mentioned previously the compressed breathing labs in the USA which receive thousands of samples a year from all over the planet report a failure rate for CO at three percent which gives good insight into the extent of the problem.

This problem of CO contamination is a very real but sporadic one, and difficult to identify without some sort of detector unless of course there is an injury as we saw in the Maldives incident when often at that point in time the air quality is verified after the fact. If you are unsure about the quality of the air, particularly if presenting with the new onset headache or nausea, check your air for CO contamination.

At least 3 times now on pre-paid tropical dive trips when bad air has been detected we have been able to salvage the trip by increasing ventilation to the compressor, pumping at the coolest part of the day, and convincing the operator to switch out the filters ahead of his schedule. These remedial solutions have rectified problems originally identified using detectors and taste (oil in air).
 
I'll take the role of devil's advocate here and question the logic of CO testing. This isn't to say that CO isn't a real risk. It is, but with all due respect to Dandy Don and others, how would you implement a testing program? (Don is right; filling stations should do this, but how would you know if they did or didn't).

Would you test every tank? Would you also verify the Oxygen percentage of air fills, in case a EAN 36 fill got mixed in? Would you turn tanks over & shake to test for loose debris which could clog your regs filter? At some point you have to prioritize risks & focus on the most real ones first. If you try to address EVERY possible risk, you'll get distracted & miss critical ones. You need to have faith in systems (and in some cases to verify adherence to those systems) to protect you from risk.

I'm curious as to how many readers of this thread, who have oil or gas heat, own or will buy CO detectors for their homes where the threat of CO poisoning is much greater. In a study years ago, folks were asked about safety fears. It turns out that the perveived fears when ranked are almost directly opposite actual risks ranked statistically.

Again, I'm only being the devil's advocate here, and don't want to trivialize the CO risk, just trying to inject a sense of proportion.
 

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