Avelo--I guess there's no need for me to recommend fundies anymore....

[NAUI Wowie]

So why would I want something that costs money, introduces another failure point (or at least one) and requires that I change the way I dive when it took me over 200 dives to get my buoyancy in reasonable shape with the gear I use now.

The point is that if you use the Avelo system you only need to adjust your boyancy approximately twice in a full dive. I know that most of us have to make tiny adjustments as we go down or up with our bcd. You dont do that at all with the Avelo. That is huge. It means you save a lot of air even if you are the most experienced person.

Second you may introduce a different failure point but you get rid of an entire BCD or BP/W aaand you get rid of weights most place. and most weight in cold or maybe all weight there too who knows. There may be a cold water variety made that will be heavier.

Third point is and most of us do not need to worry about nuetral boyancy anymore but that doesnt mean it wont be nice to have. Not to have to worry about it at all. And a slight air savings. and most important for some of us a complete freedom of movement as if were not wearing anything at all. just a tank? no bcd??? Thats freedom brotha.

I have a HUD in my car. It puts a color map and directions and speed limit right up on the windscreen for me. all information including my speed etc. whatever i want. Is that needed? no. Is it a benefit? Huge. on track days knowing my speed without taking my eyes off where i need to go and where the other cars are is super nice with the tach right up in my vision too. does any of that make me go faster? No not likely but its nice to have.

Do i need avelo??? no and none of us on scuba board NEED it. many dont want it.

but no one needed the internet in 1990 either. or electric cars, etc etc etc.

The avelo concept which they are using on Maui right now and you can test right now at their facility is pretty dang awesome.

There is no downside to new tech in scuba.

heck my dad did scuba without any computers or any bcd and made his own wetsuits and dove in quarries and ocean around PA. He even made his own double scuba tanks and harness out of firebottles , i think 50ci size? and had them hydro tested.

you think his equipment was more or less dangerous than an Avelo if it comes to market?

 

[Wibble]

Let’s take something that’s easy to learn and reliable and throw tech at it and see if it’s better.

Nope.

It’s reliant on complex technology with electronics underwater. Look at the number of failed rebreather projects.

When it fails, the diver must be able to mitigate this by using a BCD. The tech has dumbed the skills to the point of atrophy; the diver’s going down or up but must be able to cope. What about failed tech prior to the dive? Just let them sit it out as the rest of the boat with reliable kit have a lovely dive?

Dumbed down skills means other skills are also dubious, poor coral reef/wreck, etc. What about buddy skills, will that diver be able to cope with helping others?

One of the reasons the Open Water course covers a fair amount of ground is learning how to be calm. Buoyancy is part of that.


Anyway, let the technologists fill their boots with solutions to non-existent problems (like the i3!)

 

[dlofting]

The point is that if you use the Avelo system you only need to adjust your boyancy approximately twice in a full dive. I know that most of us have to make tiny adjustments as we go down or up with our bcd. You dont do that at all with the Avelo. That is huge. It means you save a lot of air even if you are the most experienced person.

Second you may introduce a different failure point but you get rid of an entire BCD or BP/W aaand you get rid of weights most place. and most weight in cold or maybe all weight there too who knows. There may be a cold water variety made that will be heavier.

I almost never add air to my wing (I only dump air) once I've adjusted after the initial descent, so the savings in air, for me, would be non-existant.

I'm not sure how you would eliminate the BCD or wing. I understood the Avelo system to be self-balancing as far as the tank was concerned. In other words the tank bouyancy remains the same regardless of air content, but nothing else.

 

[Wibble]

I'm not sure how you would eliminate the BCD or wing. I understood the Avelo system to be self-balancing as far as the tank was concerned. In other words the tank bouyancy remains the same regardless of air content, but nothing else.

The gormless enthusiasts pushing this "solution" (to a non problem) would probably be heard arguing in quiet corners that their "solution" would be so good as to eliminate any need for a backup and practiced skills.


As a rebreather diver, it always astounds me how much my open circuit buoyancy skills have atrophied -- bailing out, as in a full bailout, seems to be far harder now than when I started with the rebreather and was a dived-up open circuit diver.

 

[beester]

The gormless enthusiasts pushing this "solution" (to a non problem) would probably be heard arguing in quiet corners that their "solution" would be so good as to eliminate any need for a backup and practiced skills.


As a rebreather diver, it always astounds me how much my open circuit buoyancy skills have atrophied -- bailing out, as in a full bailout, seems to be far harder now than when I started with the rebreather and was a dived-up open circuit diver.

I don't feel that... OC is like riding a bicycle for me.... it's a "sigh... welcome home" feeling, even on a level where I'm juggling multiple stages and do rotations (up to a point of course).

2 year ago when my son was just a baby (he's 3 now) I didn't find the time to do a lot of dives (maybe 30 dives in that year), most of them with the rebreather in the recreational range... but then I found a small time slot and joined a GUE T2 class when they were doing their experience dives (max 72m, 1 h deco, 3 stages)... I did some filming and from scratch having done no OC dives in the past year, only rebreather, I did 3 T2 dives involving a tank rotation, plus I was filming the class ;-) Basics skills do atrophy but not to a level that they are non existent (of course depends on where the skills start I guess).

 

[Angelo Farina]

Even if the Avelo system compensates automatically for variation of buoyancy of the tank when it is becoming empty (although I still do not understand as this is being done), I do not see other advantages: you still need to modify the buoyancy when you change depth, for compensating the variation of buoyancy of the diving suit and other parts of equipment made of soft materials.
You need to get buoyancy when you want to stay at surface, and to get rid of this extra buoyancy when you submerge.
You need to add buoyancy whenever you lift something, and get rid of this extra buoyancy when you drop the weight.
So all these buoyancy variations, which are usually done injecting or releasing air from the BCD, will need to be performed acting on the electrical controls of the Avelo.
So in the end I do not see a significant simplification...

 

[admikar]

So in the end I do not see a significant simplification...

If I was a gambling man, I would bet you are not part of their target demographics.

 

[ginti]

I don't feel that... OC is like riding a bicycle for me.... it's a "sigh... welcome home" feeling, even on a level where I'm juggling multiple stages and do rotations (up to a point of course).

2 year ago when my son was just a baby (he's 3 now) I didn't find the time to do a lot of dives (maybe 30 dives in that year), most of them with the rebreather in the recreational range... but then I found a small time slot and joined a GUE T2 class when they were doing their experience dives (max 72m, 1 h deco, 3 stages)... I did some filming and from scratch having done no OC dives in the past year, only rebreather, I did 3 T2 dives involving a tank rotation, plus I was filming the class ;-) Basics skills do atrophy but not to a level that they are non existent (of course depends on where the skills start I guess).

Something similar happened to me, but at a lower level (cave1 and tec1). After a lot of rec diving (9 months), it wasn't hard at all to do again cave and Tec dives.

 

[Rukkian]

One of the biggest problems I see with this - if it actually works- is now you can buy a tank to replace a bcd and tank that costs as much as both (probably quite a bit more), but now that means you have to buy a new bcd for every tank you own. I am on the light side and own 6 tanks and 2 bcd (one for sm, one bp/w). I would need to essentially be buying a bcd for every tank I own, since the price is included.

 

[Wibble]

Who's going to test the tank every year? That'll be fun. I thought that carbon fibre (if it is made of that) has a limited life


In the blue corner we have a $300 BCD and $200 tank

In the red corner we have a $3000 tank and a specialist BCD


snigger