Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[crofrog]

And if they (or any agency) were to "micro-manage every single class that goes on around the world," it would expose the agency to the kind of "vicarious liability" that they routinely disclaim in defense when they are included in a lawsuit on that basis. (See the MIlls case, for example.)

It seems to me that GUE has tried to strike a balance on this. They publish the standards for each course, so a student is well aware of what is expected of them, and they have a Quality Control program where each student is asked to fill out a course evaluation form after their class is over.

They won't issue you your card until you've completed it, and depending on the answers you give you may speak to someone in QC.

 

[tursiops]

PADI and GUE are at least 2 orders (maybe 3 or 4) of magnitude different in size, and thus the problem of QC is rather different for the two organizations.
The best numbers I can find are that PADI has some 6600 dive centers globally and about 128,00 current professional members. GUE lists 28 dive centers, with 5 in the US, and 28 instructors in the US.
Maybe someone has better numbers?

 

[boulderjohn]

It seems to me that GUE has tried to strike a balance on this. They publish the standards for each course, so a student is well aware of what is expected of them, and they have a Quality Control program where each student is asked to fill out a course evaluation form after their class is over.

With PADI, what students are supposed to do in a class is in their logbooks and on the form the student is supposed to sign in order to be certified. When I was certified, I never looked at the logbook to see that the instructor had signed off for things he had not done. That was a long, long time ago. It is harder to do that with newer logbooks.

Students are surveyed by email after classes. It is not 100%, but it is a high percentage. In one case about 20 years ago, I was a DM assisting classes, and a student said s/he had not used an ascent line for the CESA, and the instructor had to answer for that. It was BS--I assisted in all his classes, and ascent lines were used every time.

We had another interesting case on ScubaBoard about 15 years ago in which a dive operation instructed students how to lie on their surveys. It was for AOW classes, and the shop chose not to travel the distance required to do a deep dive. They told the students that PADI had given them permission to skip the deep dive, and they told the students that PADI had told them how to answer the survey questions because of that. We checked, and PADI does not excuse anyone from the deep dive. The person who had posted the story, a DM working at the shop, refused to identify it for fear of reprisals.

 

[boulderjohn]

PADI could implement systems for monitoring instructors' performance through regular assessments, student feedback, and peer reviews. These feedback mechanisms could allow PADI to identify instructors who may not be meeting standards and to take corrective actions, such as additional training, mentorship, or decertification.

As mentioned above, this has been part of the system for decades.

 

[tursiops]

As mentioned above, this has been part of the system for decades.

Concur. I personally know of instructors who have had to answer to PADI for their failure to follow standards, based on feedback from students. This is based on my 25 years as a PADI pro.
We see the real problem right here on ScubaBoard, however; somebody comes on and complains about a class they had, but refuses to name names. Makes QC kinda hard...

 

[ginti]

I also don’t think it’s fair for DIR divers to have to bear the burden or feel “embarrassed” about their background because someone else on the dive boat got their jimmies rustled by some big ego with a big H on their dive bag.

You made me curious. How often have people complained about you or tried to embarrass you because of your background, or because of a Halcyon (or a Santi maybe?) piece of equipment?

@Zach The Diver I don't mean to provoke you, I am seriously interested in your answer

 

[lostsheep]

Not a single intro level class in the US? Am I missing something?

Anybody know where the standards are for minors?

NM, found it:

 

[Lorenzoid]

Not a single intro level class in the US? Am I missing something?

If you don't see a course offering listed, look through the instructors in the region to see if any teach the course you're looking for (Rec 1?) and then email them to ask if they might set something up. Some instructors list course offerings on a regular basis in hope of attracting students, others list courses in response to specific requests from prospective students, and some do a combination of both.

 

[lostsheep]

This would be a couple of years anyhow, was thinking of my kids.

The agency of death starts them at 10 which may or may not be too young depending on the kid. 14 seems pretty conservative. I got my OW cert at 12 (as soon as they would let me) and look at me now I turned out mostly okay

 

[tursiops]

The agency of death starts them at 10 which may or may not be too young depending on the kid.

To be complete, 10 is allowable, if the instructor thinks the kid is ready. I know that some have said no.