Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[steinbil]

There may be some measurable difference between the lowest model in a range and the top model but you will have a hard time convincing me that there is a noticeable difference in WOB between say an XTX50 and a XTX 200. Maybe part of your job is to push the most expensive models.

Yea I had always thought the difference was the amount of chrome on the faceplate and maybe an extra adjustment screw

Yeah, for the Apeks 2nds there's virtually no difference between XTX50 and XTX200 (purely cosmetic). The only difference between them and the XTX40 is the adjustment screw.

ETA:
And when I say they're the same, I mean identical, you can swap parts between all of them. Put an XTX50 barrel in a XTX40 and it's an XTX50. Same LP seat, same diaphragm, same o-rings, same everything.

 

[Umuntu]

There may be some measurable difference between the lowest model in a range and the top model but you will have a hard time convincing me that there is a noticeable difference in WOB between say an XTX50 and a XTX 200. Maybe part of your job is to push the most expensive models.

I’m not directly involved in the scuba manufacturing industry.

Apeks XTX range is all part of their “tech” line. Their entire range of XTX second stages are basically the same internally, with the same case design. The main differences are the bits and bobs, adjustment knobs, fascias and the like, none of which fundamentally affect WOB performance.

You would have to look outside their XTX line to see their consumer products.

BTW: I’m a huge fan of Apeks’ products, particularly their diaphragm first stages, which are simpler, more reliable and easier to service than the equivalent diaphragm first stages from both their owner Aqualung as well as Scubapro. The way they balance the first stage is different, and simpler, and makes for a better regulator. But the cost of manufacturing the different “US” models would be almost identical, with very different price points.

 

[boulderjohn]

So are you people saying that a lower level Apex (or whatever) model will not be able to get an OOA diver to the surface in an emergency?

 

[Allen-1]

My current regs are the Mares MR42T first + Proton Metal second stage and MV Octo as my secondary. I would have to get an Abyss or find another Proton Metal to make it a primary-donate set. I did breathe off my MV Octo and while it does work, it just doesn’t inspire confidence.

That’s why I want to wait until I need to get new regs - most likely Scubapro’s MK17/19 Evo and two G260s. Yes, I know, there’s a compelling argument for Deep6’s Signature series(and they support right to repair/DIY - a huge plus in my book) but I can’t get over the aesthetics.

You said: "I did breathe off my MV Octo and while it does work, it just doesn’t inspire confidence".

I think you should consider doing some pool sessions with it and based upon those sessions either have confidence in it or replace it.

My regulators are identical, except for their color. They're both serviced on the same interval. I make sure that I can breathe from each of them before each dive after I turn on the air. At somewhat random times, I swap to my octo for a couple minutes while underwater, because I want that confidence - I want to know that my octo will work if I need it.

(Edited to fix improper use of extra "either")

 

[MaxBottomtime]

 

[flymolo]

So are you people saying that a lower level Apex (or whatever) model will not be able to get an OOA diver to the surface in an emergency?

I don't think anyone is saying that, no

it would be the poorly maintained regulator that never gets breathed and often gets dragged in the sand i'd be more concerned about but that is brand and model agnostic

 

[Mod63]

Apeks XTX range is all part of their “tech” line.
You would have to look outside their XTX line to see their consumer products.

Nope. XTX is simple the current iteration of the ATX/CTX/XTX family.

 

[boulderjohn]

it would be the poorly maintained regulator that never gets breathed and often gets dragged in the sand i'd be more concerned about but that is brand and model agnostic

This forms a nice transition to a point about the actual topic of this thread.

Around 20 years ago, I was new to ScubaBoard, and that was about the time I got my DM certification. I was just then learning what the phrase DIR meant, and pretty much all I knew about it I got from ScubaBoard. I read post after post after post trying to understand all of this.

I was totally turned off by some of the DIR posters because of their gross exaggerations--the cliché "You're gonna die!" cliché. One that really struck me was made by a very prolific poster at the time, and he maintained in several threads that every alternate worn in the so-called golden triangle position would drag in the sand/silt and become inoperable, meaning that in 100% of the cases that such an alternate was needed, it would not work. I was pretty sure that my golden triangle alternate had never had such a mishap, and every time I tested it before every dive, it was working just fine.

It would take me a long time to explain how this happened, but I was essentially forced by circumstances to become a DIR diver when I started my tech training. My heart sank when I realized this, but I persevered and realized that gross exaggerations were not a requirement of DIR. I later saw what I believe to be the source of it. Dan Volker had been specifically assigned the task of leading DIR to the recreational diving community, and gross exaggerations were an intentional part of his strategy. He told me so when I suggested that he would do better if he toned down the absurdities. No, he outright believed that those absurdities were an effective persuasive technique, and he was not gong to change.

 

[tursiops]

Dan Volker had been specifically assigned the task of leading DIR to the recreational diving community, and gross exaggerations were an intentional part of his strategy. He told me so when I suggested that he would do better if he toned down the absurdities. No, he outright believed that those absurdities were an effective persuasive technique, and he was not gong to change.

And he consequently produced some of the stupidest posts I've read on SB. And that's saying something,

 

[jellycatsdad]

You said: "I did breathe off my MV Octo and while it does work, it just doesn’t inspire confidence".

I think you should consider doing some pool sessions with it and based upon those sessions either have confidence in it or replace it.

My regulators are identical, except for their color. They're both serviced on the same interval. I make sure that I can breathe from each of them before each dive after I turn on the air. At somewhat random times, I swap to my octo for a couple minutes while underwater, because I want that confidence - I want to know that my octo will work if I need it.

(Edited to fix improper use of extra "either")

In my case, my primary is a “compact” full size one(Mares Proton Metal), and my octo is the smaller compact one(Mares MV Octopus) - but both are similar, unbalanced downstream valve using something Mares calls Vortex Assisted Diaphragm. Meaning, incoming air instead of going through the downstream valve as you breathe, it goes into a bypass tube and creates a vortex that reduces WOB and allows it to mimic a balanced second stage. I do rinse all my regs and breathe off them as part of my pre-dive checks.

What I’ll do is this - I’ll switch regs during my safety stop and breathe off my octo or do a reg out drill. I’m still on the search for a suitable second stage down the road.