Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[crofrog]

That's just silly. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of posts jumping all over Put Another Dollar In's shortcomings, both imagined and real.

and a whole lot of them have been deleted. Let's do an experiment.

 

[crofrog]

A lot of the people who hate on DIR diving do so because they haven't invested the time to make their personal skills match the amateur divers who are diving DIR, and because they have a vested interest in continuing to sell the products they're certified to teach. There are hordes of OW instructors who could not pass fundies at a recreational level, not because they're bad people, but because the dive shops that taught them are willfully ignorant since they can't teach or dive with that level of control. This means they don't have mentorship or expectations to improve their personal skills.

All of the professionals have a dollar they need to make, and that requires providing a low-cost product while protecting whatever limited margin exists, which means more divers in less time. I get it, but instead of just accepting that reality, many of them like to talk about things that happened 25 years ago or how DIR divers are big meanie heads for calling out poor instruction methodology and releasing students into the world with insufficient skills.

If they had invested half the time they spend talking **** into their own diving skills and fixing the standards and QC in the agencies they teach for, everyone would be better off. But then we wouldn't get videos like this to laugh at. Of course, we also wouldn't have tragedies like Lena Mills.

Basic Skills in a tech 50 class:

This just whole video

 

[lostsheep]

A lot of the people who hate on DIR diving do so because they haven't invested the time to make their personal skills match the amateur divers who are diving DIR, and because they have a vested interest in continuing to sell the products they're certified to teach. There are hordes of OW instructors who could not pass fundies at a recreational level, not because they're bad people, but because the dive shops that taught them are willfully ignorant since they can't teach or dive with that level of control. This means they don't have mentorship or expectations to improve their personal skills.

A LOT is not synonymous with all. You’re painting with a broad brush and your comments are representative of the very attitude that annoys many of us. You’re talking down about non dir divers’ skill (which may or may not be accurate) , you’re assuming their criticism must be coming from jealousy, you’re questioning their (financial) motives, and your making assumptions about their diving history.

Pertinent details and or admissions; I am an instructor , I don’t sell **** and I certainly don’t teach for money, I passed fundies on the first go round, I’ve learned more from mentors than I have any instructor, and lastly I dive pretty darn close to completely DIR compliant.

Any anti DIR sentiment I have started long before I learned anything about the old school DIR guys or the so called DIR wars. My sentiments started with my own eyes and ears. It’s fascinating to repeatedly be told that all of my experiences must have occurred 25 years ago and are just a thing of the past.

I think one of the smartest things I ever heard was from an old school die hard DIR adherent; DIR would be much more accepted if it wasn’t for the divers.

 

[crofrog]

A LOT is not synonymous with all. You’re painting with a broad brush and your comments are representative of the very attitude that annoys many of us. You’re talking down about non dir divers’ skill (which may or may not be accurate) , you’re assuming their criticism must be coming from jealousy, you’re questioning their (financial) motives, and your making assumptions about their diving history.

Same same...

I'm honestly not sure if this is sarcasm, but it's pretty annoying to get lumped together with everyone eh?

Defense rests.

 

[lostsheep]

Same same...

I'm honestly not sure if this is sarcasm, but it's pretty annoying to get lumped together with everyone eh?

Defense rests.

Well, I was calling your post out explicitly, but this prosecution rests. We shall leave it to the jury.

 

[crofrog]

Well, I was calling your post out explicitly

It's just the shoe on the other foot of every post that talks **** about DIR.

 

[lostsheep]

Jury deliberations have begun, I strike your last comment from the record

 

[KenE]

As I said before, I believe in the "Dive and Let Dive" mentality. But after reading for awhile I did a bit of math and marketing evaluation of the situation. It is my understanding that 96% of divers are recreational or vacation divers that have no DIR/GUE training. Of those 4% with DIR training, I would venture to say 75% will not dive cave or wrecks on a regular basis. So, we are down to less than 1% of all divers that need or rely on DIR/GUE training for the diving that they do. From a marketing perspective, this is not where you want to spend your research dollars. The market is too small, maybe one or two specialized companies can do it, but not everyone. The real money is with the other 99%.

This also means that 99% of divers don't need and I would say 80% of divers don't want that level of training or skills. Why, the cost and time required to attain it is not warranted for the diving that they intend to enjoy. They just want to get underwater and see the pretty fish. So, why would the instructors who are teaching this 80% of divers waste their time getting that same training. I am not saying that none do, I am asking what is the incentive. Yes, we all have personal incentives to be better, but most are not willing to spend the time and money that has little return on investment.

I believe DIR/GUE has a place in the industry, but it is a very small place. It appears that some here on SB want it to be the only way to dive. Unfortunately, the math does not add up to that. My LDS is a GUE shop, great people, never comment on my gear setup. I understand what they are doing, they understand why I have the equipment that I use. Simple Dive and Let Dive understanding.

Now I know someone is going to comment on my numbers, I won't argue, they are rounded. Even if I am off by 5% (large margin of error), I still believe the same is true.

 

[eightytwenty]

It seems that quite a few DIR divers did not watch the tapes as well. Because I well remember GUE-trained divers telling us strokes that ditchable weight was a sign of an unsafe diver. So we are at the beginning of this thread: Why do some people just roll their eyes and tune out when a DIR diver starts talking to them.

It all boils down to balanced rig philosophy, which is not limited to DIR diving. It's unsafe to carry all your weight on something that's ditchable.

 

[boulderjohn]

This also means that 99% of divers don't need and I would say 80% of divers don't want that level of training or skills.

I pretty much discovered that years ago. I created a brief course (first a workshop, then an approved course) that taught the tech/DIR skills for recreational divers. There turned out to be pretty much no market for it. "Why do I need that?" was the general response.