Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[Subcooled]

Devil gas
Manifold vs. independent doubles
DIR wars

What's next?
This is what we get in a certificate based hobby.

If only people would consider context and focus on attitude and procedures more than on nuts and bolts...

 

[Zach The Diver]

And the more you post, the more I'm convinced you have not done a lot a diving in many different places.

In my cave, CCR, and other technical training, and very occasionally on recreational dive trips, I meet GUE divers, even some UTD divers, and some who profess to just be DIR by practice, not training or certification. That is perhaps 30-50k divers over the years Some are quite nice folks. Some are zealots. I can't really describe any of the non-DIR divers I meet as zealots, just some of the DIR folks.

So I have only dived since 2021, and only doing it seriously since 2022. My sample size is certainly not as large as yours, but I’ve dived in Hawaii, the PNW on both sides of the border, and on the Florida Panhandle. I’ve seen quite a bit of different diving environments.

This post will be long-winded for the sake of maybe finding some kind of mutual understanding here. I have done around 170 dives in that short span of time, diving with brand new OW divers all the way to GUE Tech 2 instructors. When I started off diving when I lived up in the PNW, my fundamentals were terrible. I won’t go into why, who, and how, but let’s just say my quality of instruction was completely subpar. I had a near-disastrous accident taking on a deep course that could have easily killed me- it was after that that I took my fundamentals more seriously.

I began diving with some GUE dudes. NOT ONCE did they insult or demean me for my lack of skill or for diving my particular configuration. They explained the why, how, and what of what they did. After maybe two months I was like a completely different diver. I was afforded an opportunity to grow in this hobby that I love because I was willing to keep an open mind and take advice.

You may have been doing this longer than me, but you are a living example of confirmation bias. I’ve met plenty of non-DIR divers that thought my doubles set with BPW was ridiculous, and had a happy-go-lucky attitude with diving. The last guy I dove with sarcastically remarked about how GUE being self-regulatory was “one way of putting it”, then proceeded to spend the next thirty minutes walking on the bottom of the dive site.

You also remark about how I’m reacting this way because “my experience doesn’t match reality”, as if I couldn’t just as easily say that about you. Like I said, I feel like you don’t know that many DIR divers. Every single one I’ve met- and I mean that quite literally- has been nothing but helpful when they were in a position to offer me advice.

"Proselytize" just means trying to convert someone from one belief system to another. so of cousre an agnostic could proselytize; they would just say my belief system is better than yours, becasue mine is right and yours is Wrong.
A non_DIR diver could make fun of a 7 ft hose on a recreational NDL dive, saying, "Ha, do you think you are in a cave and need to share-air single file through some restriction? Anyway, that long hose can get trapped, entangled, allow the reg to dangle and be damaged, and is unnecessary overkill for this diving. It is harder to use and takes more care and training, so what is the point?" Yes, that would be proselytizing; but have you ever heard

There’s nothing that difficult about using a long hose… lol. The learning curve is negligible until you introduce a corded light into the picture. Come on man.

 

[Zach The Diver]

And the more you post, the more I'm convinced you have not done a lot a diving in many different places.

In my cave, CCR, and other technical training, and very occasionally on recreational dive trips, I meet GUE divers, even some UTD divers, and some who profess to just be DIR by practice, not training or certification. That is perhaps 30-50k divers over the years Some are quite nice folks. Some are zealots. I can't really describe any of the non-DIR divers I meet as zealots, just some of the DIR folks.

And I will add- yes, I’m sure these judgmental DIR types do exist. They are nowhere as prevalent as you’re trying to make them, though.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Nah, it's really Paperwork And Dive In-between.

Is that what Debbie Snow said?

 

[happy-diver]

Hey mate the smile is supposed to be on the other persons face

I relate talking about DIR vs non-DIR just like talking about sex. I am OK with, and sometimes welcome, someone telling me a better way or more enjoyable way to do it. But, for God's Sake, don't tell me I am doing it wrong. As long as I come out of the water or bedroom with a smile on my face then I obviously did not do it wrong!

 

[Zach The Diver]

Flat mirrors just don't have the field of view. Convex mirror makes things look smaller, and with my eyesite, that's an additional risk. I'll take looking up.

There's no scientific studies backing the whole "you need to be perfectly horizontal for offgassing" anyway. If someone wants to take that risk (or any risk), that's not my problem if something happens. I'll put that under Intellectual Darwinism.

I wasn’t saying everyone absolutely had to do that. I’m just making a point that it isn’t some Herculean effort for someone who isn’t suffering from some severe mobility issues.

 

[tursiops]

Is that what Debbie Snow said?

How would I know?
Why do you ask?

 

[lowwall]

Is that what Debbie Snow said?

Ouch.

 

[Zach The Diver]

Since you "asked", I'll give you my two cents on the topic:

1 - You are right. There is a lot of anti-DIR, or anti-GUE sentiment out there, and here on SB. It might be a relic of the "DIR wars", hurt egos and they're probably just a vocal minority (like the zealots). Somehow it seems more accepted than the reverse here.

2 - Almost nobody likes unsolicited advice. No matter how well meaning and right it is. I try not to give it unless I'm asked. And I try to ask more than I give advice. If I have to dive with someone doing something I'm uncomfortable with, I'm honest about what I'm comfortable with and if they insist on doing it their own way I might sit out the dive. If it's someone I'm not diving with, I will tell them if I see something I think they missed, like an unplugged inflator hose, or something trapped/out of place, otherwise I usually keep my mouth shut.

3 - Most people suck at communication. I know I do, most of the time. This post might be an example of it, that remains to be seen. You probably do, too. If something is said in a way that makes someone feel inferior, it's hard for them to accept it or listen to it, and much easier to reject it. Overcoming that requires trust, mutual respect and all that jazz.

4 - While I agree that there are great benefits to the GUE way of diving even for shallow recreational dives, and I prefer it myself, I've come to realize that in many respects the "danger" of "doing it wrong" is exaggerated. Recreational diving seems like a pretty safe sport, all things considered. There are some aspects I still think are very important and missing for a lot of divers, like gas planning and practicing skills, but whether someone is diving with a jacket, bungees on their wing, swimming with their hands or the length of their hose probably won't matter that much for a lot of divers - although the alternatives might make their dives more enjoyable or marginally safer in some circumstances.

5 - If your dive count is right, you are quite new. As am I. It's easy to get passionate about these things and I understand the desire to share the excitement, but it's easy for that to turn into a little bit of overzealousness, or at least be interpreted that way. I have found that personally, the best approach for me is to try to be a good ambassador by example instead of trying to convince anyone of anything. Be a good diver, be a good buddy, be nice and helpful, don't make anyone feel inferior. If I can do all of that, maybe someone will be curious about why I do what I do. At the very least, it doesn't support the myths about GUE divers.*

*That doesn't mean I won't get into a heated argument on SB every now and then. Sometimes the temptation is too strong...

You’re honestly right. I’ve gotten a few more dives under my belt since I’ve updated that last- but otherwise correct.

My stance is more of a “who am I if I’m not trying to help others be aware of things they may not know” than anything as I have benefitted from having frank discussions with much more experienced divers than I. It might just be naivety though. People get their fee fees hurt too easily.

 

[Lorenzoid]

And I will add- yes, I’m sure these judgmental DIR types do exist. They are nowhere as prevalent as you’re trying to make them, though.

Do you realize that by persisting in this thread with a defense of DIR that you might come off as a zealot? I'm sure you're a kind, patient, non-judgmental, reserved kind of DIR diver, as I'd like to believe I am, and others here like @steinbil probably are, but the more you persist with the defensive-sounding replies, the more you might bias others into believing you're not what you think you are. Just food for thought.