Attitudes Toward DIR Divers

[Lorenzoid]

"Proselytize" just means trying to convert someone from one belief system to another. so of cousre an agnostic could proselytize; they would just say my belief system is better than yours, becasue mine is right and yours is Wrong.
A non_DIR diver could make fun of a 7 ft hose on a recreational NDL dive, saying, "Ha, do you think you are in a cave and need to share-air single file through some restriction? Anyway, that long hose can get trapped, entangled, allow the reg to dangle and be damaged, and is unnecessary overkill for this diving. It is harder to use and takes more care and training, so what is the point?" Yes, that would be proselytizing; but have you ever heard it?

Do we not frequently see that kind of pushback against DIR here on SB, with your example of someone arguing a 7-ft hose is unnecessary being common? I wouldn't call it proselytizing; rather, it's usually someone arguing in defense of some traditional way of doing something when confronted in a thread with the DIR way. If your definition of a non-DIR diver proselytizing is a non-DIR diver trying in earnest to convert a DIR diver back to the way the DIR diver was probably originally trained in their OW course, I doubt we will ever see that, because the traditional ways we were taught aren't generally thought of as making up a "system."

Perhaps the aspect of DIR that appeals to me most is that it is presented as a system, with the various parts working together. I'm not sure whether that's entirely true, but the idea appeals to me. Anyway, something that is touted from the beginning as being a system is more likely to be the subject of zealotry than something that is presented in a less cohesive way. An unfortunate side effect in this case.

 

[lowwall]

Let's do a thread where we drag PADI next and see how long before the mods close it and delete a bunch of replies.

That's just silly. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of posts jumping all over Put Another Dollar In's shortcomings, both imagined and real.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

That's just silly. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of posts jumping all over Put Another Dollar In's shortcomings, both imagined and real.

I really hate that Put Another Dollar In when everyone knows its Pay And Die Instantly.

 

[steinbil]

Presentation and tone do mean a lot. But it seems like the kneejerk reaction to any advise is to equivocate one’s good intent with some previous terrible experience with some overzealous GUE diver.

Since you "asked", I'll give you my two cents on the topic:

1 - You are right. There is a lot of anti-DIR, or anti-GUE sentiment out there, and here on SB. It might be a relic of the "DIR wars", hurt egos and they're probably just a vocal minority (like the zealots). Somehow it seems more accepted than the reverse here.

2 - Almost nobody likes unsolicited advice. No matter how well meaning and right it is. I try not to give it unless I'm asked. And I try to ask more than I give advice. If I have to dive with someone doing something I'm uncomfortable with, I'm honest about what I'm comfortable with and if they insist on doing it their own way I might sit out the dive. If it's someone I'm not diving with, I will tell them if I see something I think they missed, like an unplugged inflator hose, or something trapped/out of place, otherwise I usually keep my mouth shut.

3 - Most people suck at communication. I know I do, most of the time. This post might be an example of it, that remains to be seen. You probably do, too. If something is said in a way that makes someone feel inferior, it's hard for them to accept it or listen to it, and much easier to reject it. Overcoming that requires trust, mutual respect and all that jazz.

4 - While I agree that there are great benefits to the GUE way of diving even for shallow recreational dives, and I prefer it myself, I've come to realize that in many respects the "danger" of "doing it wrong" is exaggerated. Recreational diving seems like a pretty safe sport, all things considered. There are some aspects I still think are very important and missing for a lot of divers, like gas planning and practicing skills, but whether someone is diving with a jacket, bungees on their wing, swimming with their hands or the length of their hose probably won't matter that much for a lot of divers - although the alternatives might make their dives more enjoyable or marginally safer in some circumstances.

5 - If your dive count is right, you are quite new. As am I. It's easy to get passionate about these things and I understand the desire to share the excitement, but it's easy for that to turn into a little bit of overzealousness, or at least be interpreted that way. I have found that personally, the best approach for me is to try to be a good ambassador by example instead of trying to convince anyone of anything. Be a good diver, be a good buddy, be nice and helpful, don't make anyone feel inferior. If I can do all of that, maybe someone will be curious about why I do what I do. At the very least, it doesn't support the myths about GUE divers.*

*That doesn't mean I won't get into a heated argument on SB every now and then. Sometimes the temptation is too strong...

 

[Boarderguy]

Let's not forget the looks of disgust from the GUE hard chargers when you walk past them with an upside down back mounted pony, air2, suicide clips, gear retractors, and a drysuit that isn't black. I have dive friends that are GUE and even they look at me like I'm walking death. Deep air talks make them turn white.

 

[tursiops]

I really hate that Put Another Dollar In when everyone knows its Pay And Die Instantly.

Nah, it's really Paperwork And Dive In-between.

 

[lowwall]

I really hate that Put Another Dollar In when everyone knows its Pay And Die Instantly.

That was the old model. Get them in and sell them a course and some gear. PADI and the shop both make some money and on to the next victim. What happened to the diver after that wasn't of much interest to anybody.

Then PADI passed into the hands of various private equity groups. Since PADI doesn't have capital assets that could be harvested for a quick profit, these folks had to figure out how to actually make money from the customers instead of the usual asset stripping and financial shenanigans. Increasing the customer base is one way, so they did a big expansion into Asia, but the more important part was figuring out how to bleed more cash out of the average (and I do mean average) diver by collecting fees on additional courses.

All they had to do was get enough ops to realize that if they restricted OW divers to 18m max, they could sell more courses and gear. Even better, this would mean the ops could cut OW courses to the absolute minimum. Heck they could even offload the classroom stuff to PADI via e-learning. Extra fees for PADI, lower costs for the op and a steady supply of divers too scared to dive without even more courses and/or handholding by a DM. Everybody wins. Well, not divers obviously, but everybody who matters wins.

Even the branded DIR agencies won because there is a constant stream of new OW divers looking for advanced training and feeling shortchanged by PADI and those who have followed its lead (SSI, I'm looking at you).

 

[steinbil]

a drysuit that isn't black

Heresy! He's a witch! Put him in the fire! Drown him! Also, YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!

 

[lowwall]

Nah, it's really Paperwork And Dive In-between.

That's for the pros. Thankfully the rest of us are exempt.

 

[Cthippo]

Since you "asked", I'll give you my two cents on the topic:

1 - You are right. There is a lot of anti-DIR, or anti-GUE sentiment out there, and here on SB. It might be a relic of the "DIR wars", hurt egos and they're probably just a vocal minority (like the zealots). Somehow it seems more accepted than the reverse here.

I wasn't here for the DIR wars, but there is not a week that goes by that I don't see something posted on here, usually in the DIR forum, that reminds me why I avoid it. That is probably unfair, since every group gets judged on it's craziest, or at least loudest, members, but it's a real and ongoing thing.